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boe wrote:QUOTE (boe @ Sep 19 2012, 01:40 PM) Sorry you were faster.. read my answer up.. i put it real simple.. should be understandable..
Signing off forums for very many days..

A memory...

Metz if i remember correclty i was in your team when you lost vs that belt bombings..
It waaas 10v10-ish.. i beleave...
I was probing 95% of that game.. its why we could stop some bombers.
But generally our team was not split to Defence and Offence.. most of the time everyone was Defence.
And when we lost our tech bases.. it was because of uneyed bombrun.. i just couldn't probe fast enought alone vs 2x 2man bombrunners.

Also the ship used to defend (PT bbr) was at many times poor choice,
because after belters got past PT, the PT had no more opportunity to damage the bomber or its NAN's.
Thats how we lost some small bases.

I guess Figs, Dumbfires + minepac.. i somehow soloed xJ bombrun with a Fig once.. xJ ran too far from (nanscout)bbr, when i damaged him.. ramming stopped and i took out bbr. Not that game tho.. i was busy probing that game, and we had PT and Ints only i beleave.
So a ratio of 1 Fig defending on 2 ppl attack sounds fun

It's not related to just one game. It's most games.
and i personally stopped most of the bomb runs by the enemy team with my pt bomber.
even with the entire team on d the entire game, it was not enough to save our bases, against 4 or so pilots on the other team involved in bomb runs.
that is typical for belters bomber games.

Then I guess when the other team goes belters, the solution is to go belters as well.

No, its just poor gameplay.

belter is suposed to be a good "comeback" faction which has a bad start, good econ and good ending tech (sbs are awesome, especially since you can go sup instead of exp as your first tech and receive the same results)

now belt has a great start with bombers, great midgame with their enhfigs, great econ, great end game tech.

Sheriff Metz wrote:QUOTE (Sheriff Metz @ Sep 19 2012, 11:43 PM) It's not related to just one game. It's most games.

No Metz, its not most games.
Mostly with xJ or phantom on belter team.. this is not majority of belter games (maybe lately it is lol).
And its exactly the situation i talked about earlyer, thought its simple to understand, but u refuse to beleave it.. sad...

QUOTE (boe)1) Belter side has 2 or more people who already know how to use this boostboming.
2) Defending side has no clue how to defeat this... either all team sits on aleph, nobody probes at all or everyone are on offence with no way to get home quick.This can result in quick loss of hard to get tech bases.[/quote]

It's tactics... and enemy reaction to it... its not game balance...
I sometimes do a 4x carrier push.. i have won most games with it
- only because enemy commander wastes 2 much effort on killing my carriers and loses 2 many miners.
I will never demand of nerfing carriers even more. They did it a bit, but my 4x carr push still works fine.
Its also doable with other faction, but slightly less cheesy.

Things that really hurt this tactic is... not telling you .. figure it out urself.
Just as you should figure out what to do VS belter bombruns.
PT's and "oob commander" is tested so strike this out.

Im off now..

Boe we're talking squadgames here,
the reason this isnt being abused in main because no one likes to command belters because its gay $#@!ing @#(!
except for the usual cheese commanders who are, you, dibbley and... yeah thats it.

carriers are overpowered in small games. it's not a core balance issue, it's a team size issue.

it's a core balance issue when it can take anywhere from 2 to 10 times as many pilots to defend against something
than it does it execute it
at any team sizes

it doesn't matter how much you probe when a bomber has that much hull, can be reliably rammed to avoid spikes and prox EVERY time, and can change paths/cross sectors in seconds to avoid a known camp (and can survive camps anyway)
and only takes 2 pilots. there is no reliable way for 2 pilots defending to stop the 2 pilots bombing, before the base dies. except with something stupid like rix dests, or pt bombers.
it is not so with other factions. belters bomb runs are just too fast.
the closest comparison is probably a tf bomb run with tf having the highest accel, and light boosting scouts.
they are of no such concern.

Sheriff Metz wrote:QUOTE (Sheriff Metz @ Sep 19 2012, 06:01 PM) carriers are overpowered in small games. it's not a core balance issue, it's a team size issue.

it's a core balance issue when it can take anywhere from 2 to 10 times as many pilots to defend against something
than it does it execute it
at any team sizes

It has always been that way and was never an issue until teams fell into single digit numbers.

I've made the point before in other threads, and proven it without a reasonable doubt throughout allegiance history

many things have been a certain way forever and been broken
things do not get fixed until they are exploited repeatedly
that's how games work

I can't recall the last time I lost to a belts bomb run. My 2cents is to leave it. It's fine if you have a good commander who will do things like put a base behind an aleph, buy caltrops, force people to probe, force people to camp, and in short, command.

All in all it isn't going to be changed. So really this discussion is pointless.

Doc Izzo wrote:QUOTE (Doc Izzo @ Sep 19 2012, 05:41 PM) I can't recall the last time I lost to a belts bomb run. My 2cents is to leave it. It's fine if you have a good commander who will do things like put a base behind an aleph, buy caltrops, force people to probe, force people to camp, and in short, command.

All in all it isn't going to be changed. So really this discussion is pointless.

I was informed you lost to one a few days ago, immediately after blabbing about how easy it was to beat.