Horrible story about the NYPD

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Makida
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Post by Makida »

Terran wrote:QUOTE (Terran @ Feb 3 2012, 03:57 AM) so say there's this crazy rapist dude who decided to dress as a girl this one particular day and got arrested. he clearly presents himself as a woman so they lock him up with all the bad girls.
rapist dude: objective complete.
And you're saying this is a reason to treat trans people like @#(!? O_o "Gee, you could be a rapist, so we're just going to ignore your gender identity..."

It also occurs to me that a rapist is not likely to try to find victims at a police station, while under the observation of the police.

To be fair, this issue does come up time to time, which I find depressing. I remember reading a while ago about a feminist event that was supposed to only be attended by women, and they excluded trans-women on basically the same logic as your logic above. I still say it's insane and offensive. It's a can't-win scenario for people who are trans, and they have more than enough to deal with. Suppose you, Terran, are male -- know that you are male, think of yourself as male, always have, that's just who you are -- and then, just like that, I tell you that no, as a matter of fact you are not male, and I will treat you as if you are female instead, because you fail to match my definition of male-ness. And suppose I have the power of the state, or of some organization you have to or want to deal with, behind me. How happy would you be with this situation, and how accepting would you be of the argument "it's okay because it's possible you are a rapist"?

Also, you want to worry about safety? I'd worry about the safety of a trans woman getting locked in a cell with men in a police station, especially when the police officers already have a not-exactly trans-friendly attitude. (So hey, clearly the only reasonable alternative is to chain her up for 28 hours...)
Last edited by Makida on Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
DonKarnage
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Post by DonKarnage »

QUOTE Nah. You wouldn't lock up someone with a history of attacking a certain section of society with other members of that section, that goes against all common sense for the police.[/quote]
what if they didn't have a history?
Last edited by DonKarnage on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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notjarvis
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Post by notjarvis »

DonKarnage wrote:QUOTE (DonKarnage @ Feb 3 2012, 10:37 AM) what if they didn't have a history?
Then what are you locking them up for?

Frankly the argument that someone would deliberately get themselves arrested in Womens clothes just so they can molest some female in the prison cells strikes me as ridiculous.

If you were out to molest women there are far far easier places to do it with far less chance of getting caught than in a prison cell.
Adept
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Post by Adept »

Vortrog wrote:QUOTE (Vortrog @ Feb 3 2012, 10:03 AM) I'm sorry, but although the police behaved inappropriately, I don't think it is all one way or at least overplayed for maximum political impact.
I'm sorry Vortrog but tuhat is some blame-the-victim BS right there. The chaining up alone is utterly despicable, and if they don't lose their jobs I'm starting to see why policy seem to be so distrusted and even hated in the states.
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coopertronic
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Post by coopertronic »

Hmmmmm.... Whatever the guy's done or intended to do, it's still cruel and unusual punishment to chain someone up in an awkward position and then poke fun at them.
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clint
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Post by clint »

QUOTE article 1 : Les hommes naissent et demeurent libres et égaux en droits. Les distinctions sociales ne peuvent être fondées que sur l’utilité commune.[/quote]


Oups sorry, you are not french :P
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"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Some ZLs about me

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takingarms1
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Post by takingarms1 »

I guess this is where you can say, thank god for lawyers and laws that allow us to sue for this kind of horse @#(!?
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Makida
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Post by Makida »

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Feb 3 2012, 12:04 PM) I guess this is where you can say, thank god for lawyers and laws that allow us to sue for this kind of horse @#(!?
Yeah, as I say, in many parts of the world these people would just be dead, rather than suing the police for brutality. So... it could be worse, yay.

Baby steps in the right direction, hopefully.
Last edited by Makida on Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MrChaos
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Post by MrChaos »

No to the idea that you can't ask someone their gender when they are in an arrest situation... exactly because you are quite probably endangering them with one population and wishing aside they still have the plumbing opposite the other groups detainees. Cross dressing is something that is practiced by a large segment of those who are hetrosexuals, and you simply cannot assume that means they want to be a woman/man rather then like dressing as one.

Cops can be childish like everyone else and if we take the article/lawsuit at face value they in were childish, just sometimes the articles can get a little hysterical. I guess I began to :unsure: the extent after the "sitting next to a dirty bathroom" portion of the article.

Other then that Girly I felt quite sorry for the person and yep if the facts are as substantially like the way it is laid out in the article those who didn't do anything to correct it need some training and such. Those who did need some disciplining.
Last edited by MrChaos on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vortrog
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Post by Vortrog »

I would very much like to see a follow up to this please girlyboy as it progresses through the courts.
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