What we need in a leader

[Camaro]

QUOTE (ryjamsan @ Jun 23 2011, 11:14 AM) This is a clear example of the difference between a conservitive and a liberal

A conservitive can argue a point and give you the reasons WHYT he/she believes it. A liberal(the above respondents) can only shout you down and call you an idiot. They have no ability to argue a point.

No, a Liberal is more than capable of making their point and why they believe it, as can a Conservative. I know because I can logically reason both sides of a debate. HOWEVER, most people on both sides of the aisle are complete windbags who have no clue what they say nor what they believe in. In order to make a point, Liberals frequently point to Conservatives and say they have no message while Conservatives do the exact thing (much like you just did Ryj). Its negative politics and it does very little to further discussion.

This is why I am fed up with both "parties."

[NightRychune]

labels are stupid, useless, and don't help anyone

who would have thought

[Broodwich]

i kinda always thought labelling ryj as an idoit was pretty helpful

[SumVeritas]

IDK how does it work in your country, but a lot of the problems with political parties in mine, is that the idiots define themselves as an oposite of the other side, so they have this idiotic way of existing, in wich they need the other to justify whatever point they might have, there arent actual speeches or any sense of a real set of ideas behind them, so they can exist by themselves, for themselves, as it should be, this kind of stupidity is even worse when you have just 2 parties (like in here, we have many parties but all of them are part of just 2 major coalitions) wich doesn't propose very different things (just small changes, here and there, main thing is, how much amount of money will we spend in this or that public plan and whatnot), so the only way to really underline the differences between liberals and conservatives here is saying, well, im just not like them.
And Brood is right.

[Alien51]

QUOTE (Camaro @ Jun 23 2011, 09:24 PM) HOWEVER, most people on both sides of the aisle are complete windbags who have no clue what they say nor what they believe in.

This.

[raumvogel]

QUOTE (Camaro @ Jun 23 2011, 09:24 PM) No, a Liberal is more than capable of making their point and why they believe it, as can a Conservative. I know because I can logically reason both sides of a debate. HOWEVER, most people on both sides of the aisle are complete windbags who have no clue what they say nor what they believe in. In order to make a point, Liberals frequently point to Conservatives and say they have no message while Conservatives do the exact thing (much like you just did Ryj). Its negative politics and it does very little to further discussion.

This is why I am fed up with both "parties."

[Raveen]

QUOTE (Camaro @ Jun 24 2011, 02:24 AM) No, a Liberal is more than capable of making their point and why they believe it, as can a Conservative. I know because I can logically reason both sides of a debate. HOWEVER, most people on both sides of the aisle are complete windbags who have no clue what they say nor what they believe in. In order to make a point, Liberals frequently point to Conservatives and say they have no message while Conservatives do the exact thing (much like you just did Ryj). Its negative politics and it does very little to further discussion.

This is why I am fed up with both "parties."

And that's why I'm all for political reform and multi-party politics.

And as for Ryj, I'm through Liberal and out the other side and I feel that I've proved over the years that I'm perfectly capable of making a political point and explaining why I think it's a good idea. I'm not sure that I could say that Ryj could say that of himself though. Either way generalising about either side is daft as there's all competencies of commentary on all sides.

[Mastametz]

Liberal and Conservative* labels are stupid; people that label themselves as such are even moreso.
The world is not so black-and-white.
If all your ideals/beliefs/principles/whathaveyou can be summed up in a single word (Dem/Rep/Conservative/Liberal/otherwise)
Then you really are a stupid simpleton and have no business sharing your opinion on anything, or voting, for that matter.

[notjarvis]

QUOTE (ryjamsan @ Jun 23 2011, 09:14 PM) In case you live in Rio Linda I will explain my point about the above link.

1 He speaks his mind(Chris Christy)
2 He is clear and precise on the state of the State budget in NJ
3 He is correct, the woman in that clip does not have to work for the NJ school system

Actually without the barb's about liberal/conservative whatever crap you want to talk I'll call BS on the above. (Note I have only seen the above clip, I have no idea who he is or what policies he espouses. And I know little of the state to which he is governer - so this is all based on the clip you posted)

Here's a transcript

QUOTE Question ""You don't send your kids to public schools, you send 'em to private schools. So I was wondering, Governor, why do you think it's fair to be cutting school funding to public schools?"

CHRISTIE: Hey, Gail? You know what? First off: It's none of your business. I don't ask you where you send your kids to school; don't bother me about where I send mine. Secondly: I pay $38,000 a year in property taxes for a public school predominantly in Mendham that my wife and I don't choose to utilize because we believe -- we've decided -- as parents that we believe a religious education should be part of our children's everyday education. So we send our children to parochial school. Third: I, as governor, am responsible for every child in this state, not just my own, and the decisions that I make are to try to improve the educational opportunities of every child in this state. So with all due respect, Gail, it's none of your business.[/quote]

Now I have sympathy with the point that really a politician's private life has little to do with policy. But Christie here leaps on the statement she made about his kids (which was pointlessly stupid and emotive), and actually completely fails to answer the question she asks.

Indeed - it's all bluster and if you read it and listen again he actually says nothing about the state budget at all, apart to (basically say) I pay my taxes into the budget, and I make decisions.

He just uses the normal and bland " I, as governor, am responsible for every child in this state, not just my own, and the decisions that I make are to try to improve the educational opportunities of every child in this state", which I suspect you will hear politicians on both sides of any debate, across the democratic world say. Indeed I suspect you would have to look hard to find anyone who disagrees.

So - my analysis Of your reaction to the above clip.

QUOTE (ryjamsan @ Jun 23 2011, 09:14 PM) 1 He speaks his mind(Chris Christy) - Fair Enough - but pretty much not the end of any debate - there are plenty of people who speak their mind who would make the worst leaders on the planet.
2 He is clear and precise on the state of the State budget in NJ - Nope - he says absolutely nothing at all about the budget - just blusters loudly about where he sends his kids to school, and how much taxes he pays
3 He is correct, the woman in that clip does not have to work for the NJ school system - Where does he say this? I have no idea what you are on about. She didn't say she worked for them in that clip - nor did he...

[NightRychune]

trying to have a logical argument with ryjamsan about politics is like trying to have a logical argument about core balance with 95% of the allegiance community

neither party is informed enough to be able to engage in such an argument, nor does either party care enough to inform themselves in order to participate in an effective argument - they'd rather just spout mindless drivel as they bang their pitchforks around to drown out all reason