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if you remove paydays we will actually see games end in a draw - only to take 20 more minutes until people on both teams are convinced to vote YES on the draw vote.

Would be fun to watch

Paydays off so making miners and money management would be very important, it might be interesting to see but would be a very big change to how allegiance is played.

I would like to see it but I don't know if it would be popular, would be a vastly different game to regular Allegiance but it would require two decent commanders as a good team won't be able to make up for a horrible comm.

I think with the commanders you see in general now it's not going to be a popular core to play on.

What are your reasons for wanting to remove paydays, Night?

As far as I can see, this will only add to the number of ways an intermediate com can TOTALLY $#@! over his/her team, and we have a hard enough time getting people to command as it is.

best way to force people to learn to defend their miners

I really don't like the design element that teams get money for free. Free 36k (for a 1.0 payday faction) in a 60 minute game doesn't seem right, and that's kind of a huge deal, especially for a faction with lower inherent costs like Bios or TF. For a faction with higher paydays (giga has a 1.25 payday modifier, for 45k in a 60 minute game), it seems somewhat excessive.

In some cases, like with Bios, or when Giga and Dreg spec refs come into play, it makes miners irrelevant. You can throw them away, ignore defending them, and just camp up and wait for enough paydays to come in to do what you want to do. When miners are irrelevant, there's less context for conflict between teams, which means less action, and games end up being rather dull!

What I would really like to do is remove paydays entirely, remove he3 regeneration, and adjust the total he3 and/or value per unit of he3 to keep the amount of money obtainable within a period of time more or less the same, but none of it will be for free - you'd have to mine it. It'd also make overall money settings even more meaningful. Getting a free 12k by the 20 minute mark kind of negates a lot of the impact of playing on a map with low money. I'd also look to a more comprehensive fix in adjusting some of the maps, particularly those with backsectors or sectors next to a team's home that are very easy to choke off and mine without any real threat, and flag said offending sectors as home sectors, which would limit those to 2 he3 rocks. It'd force more contested mining, which would create more engagements throughout the early/mid-game. There would also always be a consistent amount of money on every map, and the only variable would be dependent on the total and starting money settings used, which would help simplify the economic aspect of the game without actually sacrificing the positive elements of the system Allegiance uses.

0 miner stalemates on both sides would be difficult to deal with and could force draws somewhat often. What I'd like to implement to alleviate that is a development with negative cost (researching it gives a commander money and nothing else), probably $5k, which would only be available once per game. Unfortunately, that'd require a code change, as negative values in developments (like negative paydays) aren't possible.

It would also be cool to have a 'salvage' feature like in sc2, forcing you to make sacrifices in order to restart the mining. Oh well, code change.

My principle concern with this change is that it makes it much easier for a team to be in a truly no-win situation, and it reduces the pressure for the "up" team to win the game. One of the things that makes Allegiance fun and interesting is that your team can be down, and still mount a comeback if the opposing team decides to dick around instead of pressing its advantage, and we've all been in games like that. A no-payday core creates easily-obtainable circumstances where it is mathematically impossible for a team to win. The best they can do is force a draw, and under those conditions, the opposing team really doesn't have any motivation to end the game. It's also makes Tac much more powerful than it already is, and Tac is already reasonably strong.

If you're concerned about paydays having too great an impact, I'd recommend changing payday amounts and He Yields vs miners, cons and tech. For instance, you can make tech and constructors more expensive, increase default yield and starting money to offset, and leave paydays and miner costs where they are. A team can still payday a miner or a buy a bomber, but really needs miners to make any headway on tech or expansion. Alternately, you could decrease paydays, make miners cheaper, and accordingly adjust starting money downward.

i would be in favor of decreasing paydays overall, but not removing them. Clay has it pretty much on the money

GET IT

What Clay said. Also agree that reducing paydays would be interesting.