The Official Unofficial AV referendum

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:33 pm

Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ May 6 2011, 08:06 PM) I think the proportional voting analogue would be more like everybody goes to their own choise of night club... or the Dance Club party forms a coalition with either the Rock or the Indie group. Then having five out of the eight votes, they would decide between themselves where to go. (hmm, the analogue may not work that well for proportional representation).

Anyway, you done screwed this up brits. Now you're stuck with the two party system for a few more decades.

I thought they all had a bit of what they wanted?

Gandalf2 · Post by **Gandalf2** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:33 pm

Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ May 6 2011, 09:06 PM) Anyway, you done screwed this up brits. Now you're stuck with the two party system for a few more decades.

We're not America.... we have more than two parties y'know. At least 6 different parties (not including northern Ireland who have their own different parties) won seats in the election.

Edit : for those calling the Brits idiots for rejecting this... here's some ammunition for you - two of the very few areas to vote in favour of the change are Oxford & Cambridge

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:03 pm

Gandalf2 wrote:QUOTE (Gandalf2 @ May 6 2011, 10:33 PM) We're not America.... we have more than two parties y'know. At least 6 different parties (not including northern Ireland who have their own different parties) won seats in the election.

Edit : for those calling the Brits idiots for rejecting this... here's some ammunition for you - two of the very few areas to vote in favour of the change are Oxford & Cambridge

I noticed, barely, but better than not

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:16 pm

Gandalf2 wrote:QUOTE (Gandalf2 @ May 6 2011, 06:16 PM) others (like notj) may feel that neither way would make a difference so he don't bother to vote.

I did vote for change in the hope that it would bring further change somewhere down the line.

Reasons for Failure of the yes campaign (IMO) :

The campaign was relatively low key, talking to relatives, and people who don't keep an eye on politics - no-one had a view of the issues.No appetite for change right now, people have other concerns, the economy etc. which the NO campaign used very effectively in their bilboard adverts etc.The issue itself seemed a bit technical, and people didn't see the unfairness inherent in our version of FPTPPeople don't vote for change to anything without a compelling reason - the Yes campaign failed to provide it. The slogan make your MP work harder was pretty stupid IMO. And a lot of people just take as given that their one vote counts without looking into the details.

Personally, I'm even more depressed with UK politics now. The current government is gaming the electoral and parliamentary system for Conservative advantage in the future, I can't see any hint of electoral reform in the next decade or so, and the conservatives are playing a great political game with public opinion as shown by the recent electoral results.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:44 pm

I think the AV campaign was too political, it didn't become a campaign for electoral reform but a political campaign of Lib Dem vs Conservatives.

Should have just been a debate on the electoral reform rather then seeing which politician is siding with which way to vote.

Gandalf2 · Post by **Gandalf2** » Tue May 10, 2011 12:12 am

notjarvis wrote:QUOTE (notjarvis @ May 9 2011, 01:16 PM) Personally, I'm even more depressed with UK politics now. The current government is gaming the electoral and parliamentary system for Conservative advantage in the future, I can't see any hint of electoral reform in the next decade or so, and the conservatives are playing a great political game with public opinion as shown by the recent electoral results.

Isn't the current setup in Labour's benefit though? I mean, Conservatives in 2010 got more % of the votes than Labour in 2005, but ended up with around 50 less seats.

I didn't speak to anyone who wanted no. But then I was in one of the 11 out of 400 areas of the country that voted yes

I feel that some 60% of people would vote yes if they probably understood & thought about it (the other 40% being of the mind of "if it ain't broker don't fix it" or because it suits them in their constituency to stay FPTP).

If we had a general election tomorrow I think results would be around 60% conservatives, 35% Labour, 5% Lib Dems right now. If I had voted Lib Dem at the general election, I wouldn't now after the student fees betrayal. Students & better voting are the two things I associate with the Lib Dems & they've now "failed" on both counts.

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:56 am

Gandalf2 wrote:QUOTE (Gandalf2 @ May 10 2011, 12:12 AM) If I had voted Lib Dem at the general election, I wouldn't now after the student fees betrayal. Students & better voting are the two things I associate with the Lib Dems & they've now "failed" on both counts.

Pfft, I think you forget that the Lib Dems aren't in total power and hardly have the power to say no to everything. If more people voted for them in the first place, student fees would've gone.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:50 am

Dorjan wrote:QUOTE (Dorjan @ May 10 2011, 09:56 AM) Pfft, I think you forget that the Lib Dems aren't in total power and hardly have the power to say no to everything. If more people voted for them in the first place, student fees would've gone.

I wasn't fussed that Lib Dems couldn't win the student fee's argument, I was appalled at those MP's who signed a pledge to stop an increase in student fees and then voted to increase them. The excuse that they joined a coalition is a non issue as the Pledge specifically says for voting against tuition fee increases, no proviso of having to be in power in government as this was a pledge by MP's. Now politicians have the history of saying they will do one thing and do another but the Lib Dems made a huge deal about the tuition fee's pledge so it's no wonder that people aren't going to be happy with the Lib Dems and won't be keen to trust/vote for them again.

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Tue May 10, 2011 12:27 pm

Lib dems were stupid to sign that pledge IMO. They got carried away with the election. And Cameron has played a political blinder by somehow giving them, the blame for all the current stuff while his vote has held up.

Gandalf2 wrote:QUOTE (Gandalf2 @ May 10 2011, 01:12 AM) Isn't the current setup in Labour's benefit though? I mean, Conservatives in 2010 got more % of the votes than Labour in 2005, but ended up with around 50 less seats.

You won't get me arguing for the fairness of our current voting system, but as we are keeping this retarded system enacting some boundary changes is probably sensible. I'm not at all happy with the removal of public consultation from boundary changes though, and as been pointed out herethe boundary changes will not take into account many unregistered voters which may/will have significant impact in areas with high migration etc.

I was also referring to Cameron loading the house of lords with more members than any post war prime minister.

The government has also seems likely to give THE pretty much permanently pro-conservative Rupert Murdoch a much larger influence over British media, while the supposedly left wing BBC is facing deep cuts and reductions.

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:18 pm

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ May 10 2011, 11:50 AM) I wasn't fussed that Lib Dems couldn't win the student fee's argument, I was appalled at those MP's who signed a pledge to stop an increase in student fees and then voted to increase them. The excuse that they joined a coalition is a non issue as the Pledge specifically says for voting against tuition fee increases, no proviso of having to be in power in government as this was a pledge by MP's. Now politicians have the history of saying they will do one thing and do another but the Lib Dems made a huge deal about the tuition fee's pledge so it's no wonder that people aren't going to be happy with the Lib Dems and won't be keen to trust/vote for them again.

fair enough