Free Allegiance Forums

Seriously, what the hell is going on?

the.ynik wrote:QUOTE (the.ynik @ Aug 26 2010, 07:36 AM) Wow, Bard really has gone crazy.
Obviously he has zero experience with managing open source projects.
Banning the main developer from the IRC channel? It's like he's TRYING to scare off all developers.

He's not the main developer.

He's said many times now in the last week and a half that he has quit developing allegiance.

Unless "I'm done coding for Allegiance" means something else, then he himself has decided he doesn't want to be on the dev team anymore.

notjarvis wrote:QUOTE (notjarvis @ Aug 26 2010, 09:04 AM) If that happened in a workplace to the level bard has been abused - the people harassing him would be kicked out long ago.

And then, having fired all the experienced developers and not having anyone to replace them (thanks to an uncompetitive wages&benefits package), the company would soon be in grave danger as development grinds to an utter halt all because their boss mismanaged them and then fired them when they complained.

Seriously, I thought Bard was supposed to be good at project management (i.e., managing the people working on the project). Things were supposed to be different this time, with someone who facilitates the devs instead of dumping bureaucracy in their faces (such as unilaterally creating a new dev channel without telling anyone, then handing out indefinite bans to anyone who talks about dev stuff outside of that channel). No matter how much of a drama queen Imago may be, there's been waaaaaaaaay too much developer angst for this to be "just silly old Imago having his yearly freakout" like some have tried to portray this - the big I is clearly on a bit of a hair trigger but Bard appears to be awfully rough with him, such that it's understandable if Imago goes off now and then considering the loooooooooooooong history of devteam drama he's had to be involved in.

The post that says "I'm coding for Charity" isn't obvious enough for you? You're 1/2 the reason I need to find some other reason to work on this game.

Bard wrote:QUOTE (Bard @ Aug 26 2010, 06:47 PM) He's not the main developer.

He's said many times now in the last week and a half that he has quit developing allegiance.

Unless "I'm done coding for Allegiance" means something else, then he himself has decided he doesn't want to be on the dev team anymore.

Whether you like it or not, Imago is the main developer. He has done most of the work for R6.
And we all know that Imago comes back every time after he has calmed down.

But you seem to be on a trip to make life miserable for him. That's precisely the opposite of your job description: you should be HELPING the developers.
You have no clue about the technical side, don't read any code; ASGS Beta is broken again and again; and most importantly, you don't know how to deal with people.
Yes it's a bit difficult to deal with Imago, but it's part of your job. If you're unable to handle that, please step down from your ZL position.

Bard, you're out of line.

#freeallegiance has always been the official allegiance channel if you wanted to talk to the devs as far as I've known. There was no announcement that it was being made helpline only and that here was a new Alleg channel (not even AllegianceDev, the short name just looks cheap). The only source of information that things changed is the wiki which was updated after this thread.

Also, if you're idea of 'stiring up @#(!' is discussing allegiance development and trying to help people, well, it is clear that all devs should avoid development at all costs before the @#(! really hits the fan.

Also trying to argue that it is the helpline channel is like a cop wandering around fining people because he just makes up the speed limit to be 5mph below whatever speed they were driving and saying "yeah well, that's the law, you were speeding and I fined you. Doesn't matter if there are no signs up about the speed limit, they're coming soon."

Also in first with "Power corrupts".

Though it will likely be misinterpreted as "taking sides", is it so much to ask that people stop passing judgement without all of the facts? If you do have all of the facts, go nuts.

MadP: We've seen some tiny cross section of the logs. For all we know, this could have been happening over the course of days or weeks... not the 2 minutes that the logs would suggest.

the.ynik: With 47 posts and little to no IRC history, do you really think its fair to pass judgement like that? Please realize that you're largely getting one side of the story by reading the forums.

Regarding "official" channels. Please remember that IRC is exactly like TS. There is no official channel or server. If any documentation suggests otherwise, please feel free to update it. If members have a conflict on IRC, I encourage them to start a new channel (or move to one of our MAAANY) and continue discussion over there.

TB

TheBored wrote:QUOTE (TheBored @ Aug 26 2010, 09:18 PM) MadP: We've seen some tiny cross section of the logs. For all we know, this could have been happening over the course of days or weeks... not the 2 minutes that the logs would suggest.

True, and I did think about that, but it would have to be some pretty impressive context for what is clearly imago helping someone to be considered "stirring up @#(!" sufficiently to warrant a ban (on everyone from a certain area too?)... Wait, bard banned imago for helping someone in the helpline channel?

Fell wrote:QUOTE (Fell @ Aug 26 2010, 11:52 AM) Seriously, what the hell is going on?

Just the yearly Allegiance Development @#(!storm.


On the topic of Imago stirring up @#(!. He was talking about collecting alleg stats for a leaderboard/statistics thing. The only @#(! that stirs up is ... ... ... I'm sorry, I can't think of any right now. I'm pretty sure I had something to put there when I decided to write the post, but I can't think of it now.

Imago wrote:QUOTE (Imago @ Aug 26 2010, 11:53 AM) The post that says "I'm coding for Charity" isn't obvious enough for you? You're 1/2 the reason I need to find some other reason to work on this game.

Coding for money, even if it is for a charity is not the way this game has ever worked. If you would like to revise your previous statements and start helping again, you need only send me a PM and you'll be added back into the dev group.

I was out of line for banning you from the channel, but you were spending all of your time swearing at people instead of being constructive.

If you would like to be on the dev team again, you need only to let me know.

the.ynik wrote:QUOTE (the.ynik @ Aug 26 2010, 11:56 AM) But you seem to be on a trip to make life miserable for him.

That is exactly the opposite of what has happened. I've done nothing but try as hard as I can to work WITH Imago since I took this position. He told me he was done with all of this and he wasn't going to spend any more of his time on it.

That's his choice, I only removed him from the dev group after I was quite certain he meant what he said.

He has been antagonistic and inflammatory at every turn and I've worked WITH him as much as possible.
He quit the other month and I didn't remove him because I wasn't sure he was serious.

He's made it quite clear that he wants nothing to do with Allegiance development this time and as such, I complied with his wishes and removed his group access as a result of him declaring that he was no longer willing to put forth any effort for the community.

If I've misunderstood his multiple statements on the fact, perhaps someone, or better yet he himself, could correct me and I will happily re-add his access.

Make no mistake - I want all willing developers involved and active and will work to make the situation as tenable for all involved as I possibly can.

When Imago announced he was done with alleg the most recent time, he also told me that the CDN and Trac servers would be shutting down. I'm working to migrate the trac to another box and I'm also working to branch features from R6 to R7 so we can focus on the last things that are necessary to test a stable build of R6 long enough and with enough people that it can go live.

I definitely appreciate Imago's work on R6 and he will get all of the credit that he is due for the code work he has done, but he seems frustrated with the way things are working out and that's his prerogative.

I'm not looking for any apologies and I promise you that this is not political in nature, it is simply me following the logical train of thought towards what he has told me many, many times.

If he changes his mind, he is certainly welcome back.