Heavy Cloak...

mcwarren4 · Post by **mcwarren4** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:43 pm

I've already expressed my opinion in the other thread about HTT's. I think making them more powerful is going the wrong direction. I really don't like this idea on a number of levels. Primarily that we are continuing to make each tech path more and more powerful. Also, the one distinguishing feature of Bios Exp would no longer distinguish it if all factions have this. If I were forced between the choices of giving HTT cloaks or putting assault shields into the tech tree I would opt for assault shields. But like I said, I think we need to be looking at other things, like the other tech paths and how we can bring them down to balance out with EXP, or getting rid of pulse probes.

Sushi · Post by **Sushi** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:25 pm

I agree with McW that we need to focus on nerfing more than perking.

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:47 pm

DasSmiter wrote:QUOTE (DasSmiter @ Mar 11 2010, 12:03 PM) Not including the many better options available for perking HTTs,

Such as what? In fact you posted about HTT's would have been changed long ago. Changed to what? What are your ideas and why arent they posted in the HTT thread if they are so awesome?

And I see nerfing Exp came up again

Jimen · Post by **Jimen** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:54 pm

How would giving HTTs Hvy Cloak take away Bios' uniqueness in any way? Bios starts with Hvy Cloak, while every other faction has to buy it - and under this proposal, Hvy Cloak would be moved to Starbase, so every other faction would have to invest a non-trivial amount of cash into buying it. Besides, Bios Hvy Cloak is a faction-wide perk, not a Bios HTT perk - how every OTHER ship that mounts Hvy Cloak doesn't drag out change-hating whiners who loudly cry and moan that it takes away from Bios' "uniqueness"? Even if every faction could mount Hvy Cloak on every ship, Bios would still be the stealthiest faction in the game, so I don't really get why people piss and moan about other factions' ships being allowed to hide occasionally too?

Besides, Bios is the albatross hanging around Garrison's goddamn neck in terms of how we basically can't give Starbase anything useful ever or (apparently) give Hvy Cloak to any other ship because of Bios, but we can't even suggest changing anything ever because people will whine and bawww about how we're just trying to make every faction the same? Suck it up, wusses! $#@! BIOS AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Koln · Post by **Koln** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:33 pm

spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Mar 11 2010, 07:10 PM) on the other hand it may give teams an actual chance to get Htts out and around the map

I think std cloak can make for that, instead of hvy cloak.

Also what Das said about energy-based HTTs, they'll turn into the worst HTTs since they can't cloak and kill shields at same time.

Also, Trax, since when does Bios suffer from their research time? That's mainly what makes them more resilient to losing their econ.

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:40 pm

fbs are effective without tp2. they can be quite stealthy low sig and if someone deprobes ahead of them. tp2 makes them piece of cake to use, but dont discount their ability to use without it

Archangelus · Post by **Archangelus** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:44 pm

giving hvy cloaks to htts would be better, but moving it to starbase wouldnt (think about all the other techpaths). I believe some changes into energy and recharge of the Htt´s would bring a lot more balance.

mcwarren4 · Post by **mcwarren4** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:00 pm

Jimen wrote:QUOTE (Jimen @ Mar 11 2010, 12:54 PM) How would giving HTTs Hvy Cloak take away Bios' uniqueness in any way? Bios starts with Hvy Cloak, while every other faction has to buy it - and under this proposal, Hvy Cloak would be moved to Starbase, so every other faction would have to invest a non-trivial amount of cash into buying it. Besides, Bios Hvy Cloak is a faction-wide perk, not a Bios HTT perk

Bios lacks power punch. They lack research time. You can bring in $8 billion in He3 and you won't get to htt's any faster than if you bring in $40k. They trade that for the stealthier ships. Rix HTT's can kill bases as well as cap them. GT can get armor plated htt's. Belters can nan with their hvy ints. TF HTT's have 9 bazillion HP. Bios ints can't stand up to just about any other int except maybe giga in a close quarter dogfight, aka after the htt is eyed. Every faction has a unique strength. Stealthiness is Bios' strength to counter balance their weakness in other categories.

Jimen wrote:QUOTE (Jimen @ Mar 11 2010, 12:54 PM) - how every OTHER ship that mounts Hvy Cloak doesn't drag out change-hating whiners who loudly cry and moan that it takes away from Bios' "uniqueness"? Even if every faction could mount Hvy Cloak on every ship, Bios would still be the stealthiest faction in the game, so I don't really get why people piss and moan about other factions' ships being allowed to hide occasionally too?

In the last 6 years, and possibly ever since MS had control of the game other factions could load hvy cloak on frigates and on stealth fighters and stealth bombers. What every other ship are you referring to? You see, IC htt's aren't meant to be able to hide easily. Because they can curb stomp their opponent. Belters htt isn't supposed to be able to hide easily... because they can reach speeds of over 120mps.

Jimen wrote:QUOTE (Jimen @ Mar 11 2010, 12:54 PM) Besides, Bios is the albatross hanging around Garrison's goddamn neck in terms of how we basically can't give Starbase anything useful ever or (apparently) give Hvy Cloak to any other ship because of Bios, but we can't even suggest changing anything ever because people will whine and bawww about how we're just trying to make every faction the same? Suck it up, wusses! $#@! BIOS AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You are right. We should just get rid of bios. Actually, while we are at it, lets just get rid of the tech trees and put everything under garrison.

Why the $#@! is this joker even able to continue posting in this forum? Grow up.

Spidey, you are honing in on the wrong argument here. Of course perking other factions doesn't nerf Bios in absolute terms. But it does in relative terms. Think about it in reverse for a minute. If you were to take away hvy cloak from Bios how effective would their htt's be? Not effective I would argue. If you give all factions' HTT hvy cloak you effectively make Bios' HTT below average and possibly 2nd to worst in the game... and they STILL have to contend with the research time problem. They are not easily boost rammable and they are slow to begin with. It would put them about on par with TF HTT, except without the HP. Bios sig perk on their htt doesn't mean anything if you give all factions hvy cloak htt. Bios htt fully hvy cloaked gets to what? 12 sig? Belters HTT would get to 20? I have no idea, but functionally it won't make a difference. A hvy cloaked HTT won't get eyed.

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:22 pm

I agree on the clause we should be nerfing things instead of perking them. Not just nerfing exp, scaling *everything* back. @#(!'s getting pretty ridiculous and voobish. Why reduce the amount of skill needed to do well in this game? I'm wtih McW. Perking, perking, perking isn't going to make this game much fun anymore.

Clay_Pigeon · Post by **Clay_Pigeon** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:37 pm

I'm with Drizzo and McW. We need to be nerfing the auto-win tech. Both tac and exp's endgames require a lot of planning and teamwork. People have to be in sync, talking to each other, working together. Sup's endgame requires a good tp2 dropper and enough teamwork to get everyone to launch in a bomber at the right time.