I tried to research this through the forums, but my searches either return no results, or the wrong topics.
My personal knowlege is crap and so I cant make any points. I remember the Med shield LXY SFS, but didnt really get to use one or at the time didnt use it correctly, so I cant add anything to the discussion.
I can summarise a write up on this, but not until I have more material, and to date, I dont have the time to ICE research and unless we get some serious facts and figures discussions going, I cant add any value (assuming I do).
If I was able to do a writeup, I would need:
- Comparison table to demonstrate how much tougher, energy, hull, shield, weapons etc a MED LXY SF is to a adv SF/XY SF to prove up its role
- History of what they were previously used for and their strengths and weakenesses. Exactly why they were removed. Also, more on why they are needed
-Proposed cost and techpath required to achieve them. Plus changes to validate their reinstatement. EG (not a real reason), they were removed because they had too much energy, so we should bring them back and lower energy so they are vulnerable or mainly need to be a Defensive ship blah blah whatever.
- What would an opposing team need to counter or at least match a MED LXY SF by faction.
If someone can do all this due to their own knowledge, jump right in. Otherwise, I will rescan this topic in "2 weeks" ™ to try again. As always, people can only vote based on their own knowlege or presented logic.
Remember, being an all knowledgable vet and saying the old LXY MED SF was cheeze, meant you had a reason why and should share so others can make a judgement call. This process requires you to spell everything out like people you are talking to are idiots.
Luxy SF[Med]
- Comparison table to demonstrate how much tougher, energy, hull, shield, weapons etc a MED LXY SF is to a adv SF/XY SF to prove up its role
The Med Luxy SF is built off the same platform as a luxy sf, -1 missle, and add the med shield. I would suggest lowering energy a little to prevent the infinite cloak, but not much, just a little.
- History of what they were previously used for and their strengths and weakenesses. Exactly why they were removed. Also, more on why they are needed
They were primarily an antibombing tech, they were very strong at staying alive and made bombing against them a much more dedicated team effort. downside to this mainly being that they were slow and ugly because of that shield. while they have the same stats of the regular luxy sf, the addition of that big ugly shield has an rather obvious effect.
why they were removed? tac was cheese, missles had been perked, but SF's still flew like figs. tac was eating sup up like nobodies business and a luxy sf med was one of the worst.
-Proposed cost and techpath required to achieve them. Plus changes to validate their reinstatement. EG (not a real reason), they were removed because they had too much energy, so we should bring them back and lower energy so they are vulnerable or mainly need to be a Defensive ship blah blah whatever.
There is no cost for them, you unlock them when you unlock LUXY with the research of ADV SF. Remember, unless you already have money sunk into that garrison/starbase, your really not getting that much out of them. so to really make them powerful, you will need to have money in gar tech. as to why we should bring them back? ill cover that later.
- What would an opposing team need to counter or at least match a MED LXY SF by faction.
easy: scouts, figs, ints, they all work. they are slow and heavy, they also have a higher sig, you can see them easier, and once you get close you can kill them fairly easily because they cant spin. if they drop shields they have the same health as a normal luxy, and those med shields take alot of charging up.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
now jumping back to my early point of "why bring them back" and this is the reason i support bringing alot of things back into allegiance. Because the modern day alleg player has NEVER SEEN something like this, we have an entire generation of commanders who have NEVER figured out a way to use them. Bring them back to see what people will do with them. Give this new generation a chance to play with them and see what happens. If it sucks to hell try to balance, or maybe pull them back out. but NOT trying something out for the sake of "they removed it for a good reason" or "we need a good reason to bring them back" is stupid. Lets EXPERIMENT, have fun, see what happens. Make a lot of oldtimes happy.
There, i wrote you a $#@!ing book, now lets get the ball rolling before I start a poll for your job
The Med Luxy SF is built off the same platform as a luxy sf, -1 missle, and add the med shield. I would suggest lowering energy a little to prevent the infinite cloak, but not much, just a little.
- History of what they were previously used for and their strengths and weakenesses. Exactly why they were removed. Also, more on why they are needed
They were primarily an antibombing tech, they were very strong at staying alive and made bombing against them a much more dedicated team effort. downside to this mainly being that they were slow and ugly because of that shield. while they have the same stats of the regular luxy sf, the addition of that big ugly shield has an rather obvious effect.
why they were removed? tac was cheese, missles had been perked, but SF's still flew like figs. tac was eating sup up like nobodies business and a luxy sf med was one of the worst.
-Proposed cost and techpath required to achieve them. Plus changes to validate their reinstatement. EG (not a real reason), they were removed because they had too much energy, so we should bring them back and lower energy so they are vulnerable or mainly need to be a Defensive ship blah blah whatever.
There is no cost for them, you unlock them when you unlock LUXY with the research of ADV SF. Remember, unless you already have money sunk into that garrison/starbase, your really not getting that much out of them. so to really make them powerful, you will need to have money in gar tech. as to why we should bring them back? ill cover that later.
- What would an opposing team need to counter or at least match a MED LXY SF by faction.
easy: scouts, figs, ints, they all work. they are slow and heavy, they also have a higher sig, you can see them easier, and once you get close you can kill them fairly easily because they cant spin. if they drop shields they have the same health as a normal luxy, and those med shields take alot of charging up.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
now jumping back to my early point of "why bring them back" and this is the reason i support bringing alot of things back into allegiance. Because the modern day alleg player has NEVER SEEN something like this, we have an entire generation of commanders who have NEVER figured out a way to use them. Bring them back to see what people will do with them. Give this new generation a chance to play with them and see what happens. If it sucks to hell try to balance, or maybe pull them back out. but NOT trying something out for the sake of "they removed it for a good reason" or "we need a good reason to bring them back" is stupid. Lets EXPERIMENT, have fun, see what happens. Make a lot of oldtimes happy.
There, i wrote you a $#@!ing book, now lets get the ball rolling before I start a poll for your job
Think about it this way, it's about an 8% increase in sig for increased durability (over the current lxy sfs).
Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
So talking with rav, i realized something, adding these in may actually nerf giga's endgame. people will want to dick around in these things. however, whatever happens should be interesting, i can't ice, so if someone would be polite enough to pull up the stats from a luxy SF an post them, or if you have an old DN version, that would be sweet
Done for you psych.
Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
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TurkeyXIII
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:18 am
- Location: Melbourne, Aus
Found it in one of the older DN core files. The only differences from an adv sf were the ability to mount Med Shield, $500 price tag, and 10 fuel instead of 5 (!?!).
They had the same speed, the same base signature and the same base mass as any other stealth.
Having the med shield mounted instead of small shield:
^This assumes SS2, MS2 and shield GA 2
Edit: This was from DN 4.5, which had the ship present but disabled.
They had the same speed, the same base signature and the same base mass as any other stealth.
Having the med shield mounted instead of small shield:
Code: Select all
adv lxy MS
sig 100 125
hp 407.6 632
mass 80.5 82.5Edit: This was from DN 4.5, which had the ship present but disabled.
Last edited by TurkeyXIII on Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
QUOTE (Randall Munroe)14.2: Turkey consumption rate of the average American in milligrams per minute[/quote]
our current luxy sf
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp116/s...e/lxysfcc06.jpg
a dn210 med luxy sf
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp116/s...dlxysfdn210.jpg
up the ripcord cost, leave the time a little longer, maybe drop the armor class to light and increase the health to 220. it already mounts 1 missile left, and you can see that it cannot infinitely cloak
Engage
EDIT: broken pictures, sorry for the whitespace
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp116/s...e/lxysfcc06.jpg
a dn210 med luxy sf
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp116/s...dlxysfdn210.jpg
up the ripcord cost, leave the time a little longer, maybe drop the armor class to light and increase the health to 220. it already mounts 1 missile left, and you can see that it cannot infinitely cloak
Engage
EDIT: broken pictures, sorry for the whitespace
Last edited by Psychosis on Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Weren't ms lxys removed because one squad was using them to whore another squad.
And no I'm not joking
And no I'm not joking
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.
Quoted and bolded for emphasis. I would like to see more answers to the question of why we should put them back in.Vortrog wrote:QUOTE (Vortrog @ Aug 30 2009, 07:58 PM) - History of what they were previously used for and their strengths and weakenesses. Exactly why they were removed. Also, more on why they are needed
Also, do you think the Med Shield lxy should replace the current (infinite cloak) lxy, or be a separate ship (allowing you to choose between the two lxy SFs)? We could also blend the stats of both together a bit and just have one ship, but I feel that might end up being too overpowered.
I think a good comparison to draw here is GT SFs when they get gauss. At that point flying with shields and missiles loaded along with gauss is more effective than just sniping with LRMs from 2K away. A MS lxy wouldn't have the sheer cheese power of gauss, but it would be a lot tougher and pretty much fill the same role.
Psychosis wrote:QUOTE (Psychosis @ Aug 31 2009, 01:24 AM) There, i wrote you a $#@!ing book, now lets get the ball rolling before I start a poll for your job
Last edited by Xeretov on Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Imo, Lux SFs used to be overpowered, but I don't think they would still be today.
People rarely used cloak to whore with Lux SFs, it was not necessary.
Changes that impact on Lux SF gameplay:
-CMs were perked. CM3 vs Hunter3 used to be a joke. Evading hunters used to be nearly impossible, which made Lux SFs(and SFs in general) better than they are now at whoring.
-Boosters got a huge perk: Booster2/3 used to cost 5k each and there were no Hvy booster. With dumbs, gat,dis and gat costing 5k as well, boost3 wasn't a commonly bought tech. As for the boosters themselves, they both got several perks. Most of the time, figs were forced to catch Lux SFs with a crappy boost2(Not the current boost2). A fighter could catch a SF before dying most of the time, but a med shield just ensured the SF's victory because the fig usually had nearly no hitpoints left once it got into range.
- Games used to be smaller. The 500 credits/ Lux SF is a more important issue now than what it used to becauses games are about 2x bigger now than on 1.24/1.25.
Imo, Lux SFs used to be overpowered, but Imo, all these changes would probably make them more balanced now than on 1,25
People rarely used cloak to whore with Lux SFs, it was not necessary.
Changes that impact on Lux SF gameplay:
-CMs were perked. CM3 vs Hunter3 used to be a joke. Evading hunters used to be nearly impossible, which made Lux SFs(and SFs in general) better than they are now at whoring.
-Boosters got a huge perk: Booster2/3 used to cost 5k each and there were no Hvy booster. With dumbs, gat,dis and gat costing 5k as well, boost3 wasn't a commonly bought tech. As for the boosters themselves, they both got several perks. Most of the time, figs were forced to catch Lux SFs with a crappy boost2(Not the current boost2). A fighter could catch a SF before dying most of the time, but a med shield just ensured the SF's victory because the fig usually had nearly no hitpoints left once it got into range.
- Games used to be smaller. The 500 credits/ Lux SF is a more important issue now than what it used to becauses games are about 2x bigger now than on 1.24/1.25.
Imo, Lux SFs used to be overpowered, but Imo, all these changes would probably make them more balanced now than on 1,25
