Shipyard & CC_07

[Freyja]

QUOTE (Adept @ Jul 26 2009, 04:16 PM) Thins I'd like to see removed as pointless.

Battlecruisers
Battleships
Long Toms.

`yn




I hear where you're coming from, but those are still viable even with the nerfing Dis (which i still like to see keep some AoE more) and perks to caps, these are simply another stage of insanity which while won't be seen a lot it is nice when they appear- memorable and fun.

-

For XRM, I'm not sure I like the idea of moving it to SY, I do like the idea of allowing base killing caps the idea of carrying XRM AB and SRM AB- though haven;t thought it through much. One step further I'd let FeeBee use XRM as well, it just seems logical and with the way XRM is nerfed now (even with a potential +15% perk soon(?)) it's not that big of an issue to allow it.

[spideycw]

I don't think I have ever seen a Destroyer kill a Devastator with killer swarm ever.

[Andarvi]

Always look at things with prospective.

Battleships with longtoms are very frikking good.

However, the tech equivalent is an advanced fig with dis 3, shield 3, dumb 3 and hvy booster (and hull GAs).

Longtoms or not, the battleship dies to a decent group of such figs-

[Xeretov]

QUOTE (spideycw @ Jul 26 2009, 02:38 PM) I don't think I have ever seen a Destroyer kill a Devastator with killer swarm ever.

I think after that test you, Brood and I ran we concluded that killer swarm was an epic waste of cargo space.

[madpeople]

QUOTE (spideycw @ Jul 24 2009, 09:59 PM) As far as getting it on AU that is something you have to talk to TE about. If you need help with this send me a PM about it and I will happily post it in the Admin Request forum for you if you do not have access. I wouldn't mind running test games either as that would be a good way to see what works and what doesn't.

Also Madp can you expand a bit more on your system? Specifically how much do you see everything costing and what will the toughness of the caps be? Theoretically of course. Besides that looks like a good and interesting idea.

TBH the best way to look at costs and toughnes would probably be with TEK since the core already has all that info in it, although using them in game gives you a much better feel for how things actually pan out, for example the hvy class mk3 ships with lg 3 have an enormous ammount of hull (enough to withstand repeated aleph reses at point blank range), but it works out ok in game - in a small game, 4 mini 3 hvys killed the ship before it before it reached the exp (there was no escourt for the cap, and it's AB turrets were quite ineffective against the agile ints)

Lt class (read corvs) are fairly cheap and disposable at ~1k a pop, they should be able to handle a group 3 adv figs (probably more) well with two turret gunners (3v3, but corv costs 1k so corv should win - esp since it's an anti small ship ship)

Med class was about 3k for dests and devs (can't remember exactly)

Hvy class was about 10k for frigate/cruiser/battlecruiser (they are upgrades of each other), 15k for BS, BS is an anti hvy cap ship, so one BS can take on 2 battlecruisers (but it's less effective vs bases), these ships have A LOT of hull (like they should for the cost of a tech base), they are essentially damage sponges able to survive adv figs with galvs for over 30 secs (i.e. time for their escourts to kill the figs).

RE: AU, I think TE wants me to do more testing before he puts it on the AU, but I don't think I will be able to do that for at least the next week (will see how things go I might be able to find time - It's on the beta server so I jsut need to find time to switch over to 32 bit XP to install and run alleg).

QUOTE (Vlymoxyd @ Jul 26 2009, 05:16 PM) Res-resistant shields: I got those in my personal unfinished cores for a bunch of years and I beleive they can be very interesting. Imo, it'd be best to have a devel that unlocks an anti-res version of all shields in
I think it'd make a lot of sense for a battleship to have more shields than a corvette or a MF.

My core has similar thnigs to that, although I didn't change the damage types of the shields to make them resistant to reses, I just gave them more HP (I wanted res to work on caps). lt class ships get badly damaged by res, med class can take a couple of res, hvy class doesn't really have to worry about such things.

QUOTE (Xeretov @ Jul 26 2009, 07:46 PM) I think after that test you, Brood and I ran we concluded that killer swarm was an epic waste of cargo space.

I got rid of killer swarm.

A dest is for killing small ships.
A dev is for killing caps.
killer swarm is for killing caps.
but a dest is for killing small ships, it has no buisness attacking caps, that is what devs are for.

[Adept]

I'd like to keep the ability of Frigs & Cruisers to kill bases, but they don't really need to have nukes. Bases die fast enough to ABs.

Instead of nukes being the SY antibase missile, making the XRM cruise be the default would rock. It works two ways.

a) A cap has long range hit capability. Use a cloaked missile frig, and you can hit the base uneyed from several k away.

b) Against competent defense the cap will have to get right close to the base (as they do now with nukes) since the XRM cruise is easy to shoot down.

The cruise has normal AB damage, and XRM cruise 1 - 2 - 3 can be a SY antibase missile tree so sup is not needed. Probably they should have the option to load AB if wanted.

[KGJV]

My thoughts:

1. Everything in SY that can't kill a base (large) should be free (most ships and most weapons... or just a few bucks like GS so the commander can control who use what).So devs are free but the skyriper cost $5k for instance. The problem with SY today is that it costs a lot and then cap ships cost also a lot even the cap ships that are not "end game" tech.

2. 'Classes' (light, med, hvy, super hvy) should only give new ships not new parts. So you can research sc3, lg3 with just a basic sy. same for speed GAs. Also add more GAs to SY (TBD) ?

3. add a "one-sided" 2K range aleph resonator that only caps can use and that damage only small/med ships and prox/towers.


Otherwise, if you want to keep current SY prices then, may be, add some form of SY spec mines to all faction (spec mines that need a SY to be build). And/Or add He3 speed/yield GAs to SY.

[Weedman]

killer swarm is like, uber looking, but not too effective in a real situation

if you increase the speed/tracking of the missiles that will increase the range and accuracy of them and might make them effective, also torpedos are good in moderate numbers, but there's usually not enough people with dests shooting them

for the most part, all dests are useless (without hunter killer3) except rixian

i love devs for the sheer firepower, but not every faction has this class

[RHINO_Mk_II]

Vly's idea sounds decent, but seems overpowered if all of those suggestions are taken for a single ship type.
I like the idea of un-nerfing XRM and tying it to SY, but usable by Hvy Bombers as well.
I don't think we need to keep both Battlecruiser and Battleship.
I like the idea of an aleph clearing capship -- with anti-res shield and short range (800-1000?) powerful turrets.

It would be epic if F/Bs could mount torpedos for capship defense, but I think Sup is already too good against SY in decent sized games.

[Raveen]

I'd like to see SY substantially simplified. MadPs idea is nice if Allegiance was a cap based game, but it isn't. If I was commanding Mads core I'd be totally lost as soon as my SY built. Complexity should come from the gameplay, not the tech tree.

Here's a rough SY techtree that I have in mind. It's more like standard Allegiance Techs (I'd like it to be even more like that tbh). Ships are researched for free at each SY level, tech research is unlocked by the SY research.

CODEFree SY Tech SY Research DD DD Research Notes
Ships
Ships free at each SY level
Corvette
Destroyer
Devastator
Frigate
Cruiser
Attack Carrier
Assault Carrier
Freighter
Battleship
HoD GT Only
Flagship I TF Only
FS II TF Only
FS III TF Only
FS IV TF Only

Tech
Research available at the appropriate tech level above
Skycap 1 Skycap 2 Skycap 3 Long Tom
Large Shield 1 Large Shield 2 Large Shield 3
Skyripper
Lancer
Hvy CM 1 Hvy CM 2 Hvy CM 3


I'd like to see caps cheap and weak. A tweak to mini damage to Large shield would be in order to force exp to use Emp as well. Tac is fine, Sup needs a small dis nerf. A Corv is a heavy GS and shouldn't be substantially harder to take down. Frigs are heavy heavy bombers. And so on.