Page 3 of 11
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:28 pm
by spideycw
I have a brilliant never before tried idea!
Make IC ships have a 2 minute research and cost 1 dollar!
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:30 pm
by HSharp
I thought the getting ships as soon as base upgrades was offset in the 4 minute time it takes for the base to upgrade anyway?
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:41 pm
by Dorjan
Oh god, not this again. 75% of you are fools.
IC are not over-powered, you just suck. They are slow to expand and if you get their opening tech con or even one of their opening miners you'll find yourself running rings around them and replacing bases faster than they can blow them.
- IC need no fix, they are @#(!e enough as they are. (BIG $#@!ING DOORS) Just learn to be better against them. How many times has SysX beaten an IC exp team with another faction? eh?
Giga needs their fighter / int models fixed so pilots can use them. ATM their gun locations are rubbish and makes giga quite @#(!e. As a commander, giga are fantastic, if only their basic tools were made that little bit better. Jesus, SysX can even use Giga in a SG and win so you can't call them completely crap.
- Improve their gunmounts for ints / figs and giga are gold.
- Improve SY, but SY in general is in the middle of re-vamp so ignore this until after that has all changed
Belters, the ONLY nerf belters need are certain techs (like tp2 for example) not to be retained if their techbase (sup) is taken down. Other than that, they are well balanced and are tricky to use (as pilots). Rookies to the game find belters really hard to play as they try and stear as if on rails.
From what i've read here I'm starting to think most of you haven't even played this game. I don't want to play some paper/scissor/stone game otherwise I would be playing starcraft (that is a joke, starcraft is a much better game than most but still).
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:21 am
by Andarvi
Dorjan wrote:QUOTE (Dorjan @ Apr 27 2009, 08:41 PM) Oh god, not this again. 75% of you are fools.
IC are not over-powered, you just suck. They are slow to expand and if you get their opening tech con or even one of their opening miners you'll find yourself running rings around them and replacing bases faster than they can blow them.
- IC need no fix, they are @#(!e enough as they are. (BIG $#@!ING DOORS) Just learn to be better against them. How many times has SysX beaten an IC exp team with another faction? eh?
Giga needs their fighter / int models fixed so pilots can use them. ATM their gun locations are rubbish and makes giga quite @#(!e. As a commander, giga are fantastic, if only their basic tools were made that little bit better. Jesus, SysX can even use Giga in a SG and win so you can't call them completely crap.
- Improve their gunmounts for ints / figs and giga are gold.
- Improve SY, but SY in general is in the middle of re-vamp so ignore this until after that has all changed
Belters, the ONLY nerf belters need are certain techs (like tp2 for example) not to be retained if their techbase (sup) is taken down. Other than that, they are well balanced and are tricky to use (as pilots). Rookies to the game find belters really hard to play as they try and stear as if on rails.
From what i've read here I'm starting to think most of you haven't even played this game. I don't want to play some paper/scissor/stone game otherwise I would be playing starcraft (that is a joke, starcraft is a much better game than most but still).
I find your confidence in SysX skills heartwarming, but the simple fact that 95% of squad games are IC vs ??? (often IC), means they ARE overpowered. A faction with a perk that invalidates an entire techpath used against them from the start needs rethinking.
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:33 am
by apochboi
Andarvi wrote:QUOTE (Andarvi @ Apr 28 2009, 08:21 AM) I find your confidence in SysX skills heartwarming, but the simple fact that 95% of squad games are IC vs ??? (often IC), means they ARE overpowered. A faction with a perk that invalidates an entire techpath used against them from the start needs rethinking.
Just because a faction is used in a squad game constantly does not mean it isnt well balanced. Balancing a game on the basis of a squad game isnt ideal. In general IC are pretty well balanced. The reason they are used in squad games so often is they have an agressive opening (LT.ints). The opening of a squad game is crucial as im sure you are aware. I however accept that IC have some nice perks, but they also have corresponding nerfs to go along with those perks. Im sure you are aware that IC's economy can be a blessing or a curse.
Exp will always be the tech path of choice for squad games and if we nerfed IC's Exp im only too sure that squads would move on to Rix ect ect ect.
If you feel there is a larger issue with expansion well, post that rather than just one factions expansion.
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:38 am
by HSharp
Just make IC ops and tele's galvable, if it's possible add a new armour class so it will take a while to galv and if not then still make them galvable.
The ripping miners and starting lt ints are already pretty powerful perks anyway they don't need ungalvable ops and teles, they can push tech-cons like everyone else!
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:52 am
by apochboi
HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 28 2009, 10:38 AM) Just make IC ops and tele's galvable, if it's possible add a new armour class so it will take a while to galv and if not then still make them galvable.
The ripping miners and starting lt ints are already pretty powerful perks anyway they don't need ungalvable ops and teles, they can push tech-cons like everyone else!
Galvable ops and teleports seem like a reasonable idea. I we have 5 free armour classes to use which were taken up with nix. Im sure we could apply one of those to the op's and teleports.
Problem is how much tougher do you want to make them. Let me get the numbers for you to see.
IC OUTPOST
Hull: 6666*1.15(GA) = 7665
Shield: 6666*1.15(GA) = 7665
GALV BLASTER
Projectile Info -
Damage - 3.5
Rate - 8 p/s
Total damage = 28 damage a second
-----------------------------------------
Now the damage calculations with the AC mod's included.
Galv does four times the damage against minor base shields
Galv does ten times the damage against minor base hull
Shield = 112 dmg p/s
Hull = 280 dmg p/s
Now that is per fighter without any faction EW damage bonus and or kill bonus.
If you want to play around with the numbers for a bit and compare them to say an outpost from a faction which has no hull and shield bonus just to see what numbers you can come out with then that would be a good start.
I hopw this helps
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:56 am
by HSharp
I'd say make them like a third or half stronger, so galvs only do somewhere between 2-2.5 times more damage on IC shields and 5-7 times more on IC hull, it makes it big enough to have an impact on needing more galvers to galv down the bases but not so big that galving is impossible in smaller games.
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:09 am
by apochboi
Im going to use an example under your proposal and the current results.
Scenario
5 Advanced figs with galv no kb gal and undefended op. The outpost is a belters outpost.
Shield 6666
Hull 6666
Shield : 6666/560 = 11.9 seconds
Hull: 6666/1400 = 4.7 seconds
TTK = 16.6 seconds
New IC Op mod's
Shield 7665
Hull 7665
2.5x damage to shield = 70 DMG P/S
5x damage to hull = 140 DMG P/S
Shield : 7665/350 = 21.9 seconds
Hull : 7665/700 = 10.95 seconds
TTK = 32.85 seconds
A difference of 16.25 seconds.
I hope this helps you see why what seem like small changes in the modifiers have massive impacts on smaller games and larger games.
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:00 am
by Dorjan
I really am against this idea for one reason: You are taking away something from the game that is unique and already balanced with IC. Gigas bases are vuln to small arms fire and IC are against galvs, two big features that make the factions.
Either get rid of their ripping miners maybe as that was added to them (I could be wrong but hasn't IC ALWAYS had ungalvable bases?) if my assumptions are correct, the ripping miners are the more obvious "nerf" to IC.
Sup has fig/bs that aren't all that much more expensive than galvs to get (ofc galvs doesn't cost per ship..)
IC also has large doors making them weak to HTT runs. On Large maps going IC is suicide.
This will really throw IC out of balance and their costs / build times etc will all have to be adjusted.