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Wut if u did a recode on the he mines so it cause he to regenerate faster on a rock and then the miner could mine the he mine? Is that even possible?

Just increase the Dreg He mine income to 1k, possibly reduce the cost of the mines and tech a tad.

rojomojo915 wrote:QUOTE (rojomojo915 @ Jan 30 2007, 04:39 AM) Wut if u did a recode on the he mines so it cause he to regenerate faster on a rock and then the miner could mine the he mine? Is that even possible?

No.

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Jan 30 2007, 06:07 AM) Just increase the Dreg He mine income to 1k, possibly reduce the cost of the mines and tech a tad.

Why in the world would you want to do that? The question here isn't "How to make Dreg uber".

Personally, I like Ang's proposal of "less range, less damage, less hull". The whole "fast but fragile" theme is way better than the current one of "fast and uber".

Right now, Dreg has many of the advantages of other factions with very few drawbacks. They appear to have high costs, but their Yield balances it exactly. The mining speed is a little slow, but not significant enough comapred to the increase in travel speed the miners enjoy (incidentally, reducing the travel speed of Dreg miners specifically so that specific ship didn't enjoy the general speed increase might be an option). They have the greatest increase of all factions to speed and agility - they are over Bios agility, and over Belter speed. Their ships have the hull of IC, but less of a signature disadvantage. Normal shields. Good models. The only place they have an actual disadvantage is in ship sensors, which can be countered fairly easily. Their stations have been specifically altered such that the penalty doesn't apply to them. Oh, yeah, and if the overall He3 count per rock is low, they can build He3 mines which beat out regen. In short, they have one of the strongest advantages, several minor advanatages, and almost no disadvantage.

The PK vs ACE game isn't much of a guide for relative advantages, but there's a reason it ended up Dreg vs Dreg after one side chose Dreg.

Well said Ang. After some post-game discussion it seems that the range on those ints is ridiculous. Our guys were travelling two sectors to kill miners and getting home in a reasonable period of time. Maybe cut down on their fuel efficiency (if that's even possible).

I really think the right approach is to hit them with a hull/shield nerf... dreg is a swarm faction, they're hard enough to hit while they're zooming around so fast, at least reward us when we manage to.

Deng if you seriously think making Dreg He mines pump out 1k instead of .8k will make them uber, then I don't think you understand how limiting He mines are at either level. It's not huge of a chance by any means. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

mcwarren4 wrote:QUOTE (mcwarren4 @ Jan 30 2007, 02:47 PM) Maybe cut down on their fuel efficiency (if that's even possible).

Due to how boosters work in Alleg (i.e. takes quite some time to get to max speed), I don't think that'd be such a good idea. Keeping the current boosting speed while toning down the non-boosted, cruising speed could be preferrable, and would achieve what you're looking for (it would also require a somewhat complicated workaround, though (unless I'm mistaken)).

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Jan 30 2007, 05:33 PM) Deng if you seriously think making Dreg He mines pump out 1k instead of .8k will make them uber, then I don't think you understand how limiting He mines are at either level. It's not huge of a chance by any means. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

My point was: why propose improving something that everyone agrees is too strong, and needs to be reined in? (edit for clarity: here I mean Dreg in general, not He3 mines in particular)


As it is now, if you only ever build one mine, you break even after 26 mins, and after 19 mins if you build two. With your proposed change, that would change to 20 mins and 15 mins, respectively. Hardly a nerf, no matter how you look at it.

Limiting or not, they're still a (potentially) unlimited source of income that cannot be killed without base-killing tech.

Grimm, any chance of splitting Bax' and my posts from this thread, as they're not relevant to the topic at hand (nerfing Dreg)?

I will not touch their mines, there is no need to increase their money output.

So what I gather, ang's suggestions from the other thread should help with nerfing dreg:
QUOTE PW Damage to 0.95 from 1 (lowest value of all factions)
PW Range to 0.9 from 1 (lowest value of all factions)
Ship hull to 0.85 from 0.9 (Giga level)
Ship Shield to 0.9 from 1 (Bios level)
He3 Yield to 1.20 from 1.25 (better than most factions)
He3 Speed to 0.75 from 0.8 (worse than most factions)[/quote]

The info in the brackets would be the new value.
Note, that they don't have IC hull strength at the moment, IC is at 0.95.

About the range, I could reduce the amount of fuel they have. The current fuel level of all normal and hvy ints is 15 (for belters it is 18). I could try reducing it to 13 or 12 to limit their range. (I hope I got the correct values out of ICE, I am quite new to the stuff)

Either limit their PW Damage or limit their fuel, not both.