Spidey's Command List

Post by **Raveen** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:47 am

Malicious Wraith wrote:QUOTE (Malicious Wraith @ Dec 13 2007, 01:55 AM) This thread is full of people who think age = skill.

God, get the nuke! And make sure to write "Darwins Avenger" on it too.

Actually it's only JGB who thinks that age = skill. Or more accurately Logging in = skill. I've been trying to point out the fallacy of his thinking but he seems set on his idea irrespective of evidence, statistics or common sense.

Lt_Duong_ · Post by **Lt_Duong_** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:51 am

Would that make people who get booted then log in as hiders more cool?

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:08 am

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Dec 13 2007, 02:07 AM) For example;

18/20 AllegAge is accurate withing Â±2 ranks.
19/20 Helo is accurate within Â±6 ranks.

Get it? /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

.....No

Is it like me saying picking numbers out of a hat

20/20 accurate within Â± 25 ranks.

Woot I have the 100% accurate system, all bow down now!

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:38 pm

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Dec 13 2007, 02:08 AM) .....No

Is it like me saying picking numbers out of a hat

20/20 accurate within Â± 25 ranks.

Woot I have the 100% accurate system, all bow down now!

You're just being argumentative for no reason. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roll:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

=-=

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Dec 13 2007, 01:47 AM) Actually it's only JGB who thinks that age = skill. Or more accurately Logging in = skill. I've been trying to point out the fallacy of his thinking but he seems set on his idea irrespective of evidence, statistics or common sense.

No, I really can't believe people aren't reading words. AllegeAge=Experience in a round about general way, just like Helo=Skill in a round about general way.

Post by **Raveen** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:59 pm

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Dec 13 2007, 03:38 PM) No, I really can't believe people aren't reading words. AllegeAge=Experience in a round about general way, just like Helo=Skill in a round about general way.

No it doesn't. AllegAge is a simple function of how many unique days a player has logged in on. That has no relationship to skill whatsoever. Which is why people get frustrated when you suggest that it magically does. There may be a very fuzzy correlation (and I actually doubt it beyond the first 3 months of play) but that's all. Certainly I'd be surprised if there's any link substantial enough to base a ranking system on.

Evincar · Post by **Evincar** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:30 pm

so if y plai more tieme ir better? ir the roxx! been sincz teh beta.

wtf is a nan?

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:35 pm

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Dec 13 2007, 03:38 PM) You're just being argumentative for no reason. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roll:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

I was bored, and one of those who suffered (well not really suffered, you might say stacked) during the first implementation of AllegAge.

What you don't seem to acknowledge is that AllegAge would only sort out players based on thier joining date which means that its basically making the (#) last for longer on newbies as well as people who shouldn't be newbies. Also try and post a few real samples of AllegAge in action then making up numbers completly with only an "educated" guess.

TrueSkill looks like a very interesting method to implement and deliciously special as it is developed by Microsoft Research so will be suited to Allegiance in a special way.

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:34 pm

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Dec 13 2007, 09:59 AM) No it doesn't. AllegAge is a simple function of how many unique days a player has logged in on. That has no relationship to skill whatsoever. Which is why people get frustrated when you suggest that it magically does. There may be a very fuzzy correlation (and I actually doubt it beyond the first 3 months of play) but that's all. Certainly I'd be surprised if there's any link substantial enough to base a ranking system on.

You still aren't reading simple words dude. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

AllegAge = Experience

Not skill per se. And in a general fuzzy sense just like ANY RATING SYSTEM will attempt to measure skill, when it will only measure wins.

If you're not getting it still let me draw another fun rough 'n' dirty example. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Firing ab at base and realizing scouts generally don't carry abs = experience.

Firing ab at base without lock and including speed in your range of 20mps for .1k distance while dodging mines and pu podded scouts = skill.

Knowing what a nan is and how to nan = experience

Knowing you can nan a drone while circling around it between you and the int trying to kill it while naning it and dropping mines and lobbing a df or 2 = skill.

=-=

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Dec 13 2007, 10:35 AM) What you don't seem to acknowledge is that AllegAge would only sort out players based on thier joining date which means that its basically making the (#) last for longer on newbies as well as people who shouldn't be newbies.

AllegAge is not based on their join date, but frequency of logins. And I'm not advocating (as I've clearly sad many many times) to use AllegAge solely, rather to use AllegAge (or a similar mechanism at the least) as a component to any ranking system.

Their (#) should last longer then a week or two, it would be nice if people without (#)'s knew what a nan is.

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Dec 13 2007, 10:35 AM) TrueSkill looks like a very interesting method to implement and deliciously special as it is developed by Microsoft Research so will be suited to Allegiance in a special way.

TrueSkill has nothing to do with Allegiance as far as I've read. That would be like saying Internet Explorer is great to use with Allegiance as they are both made by the same company. TrueSkill / AllegSkill will likely be better or equal to helo, that's never been my contention otherwise. Simply put that any new ranking system should look at as many facets of the game as possible in order to make the most accurate measure of a players rating.

Of course another issue is this 'rating team of people' have also said that they may use data from old games to generate ratings, in which case AllegSkill is poo.

Post by **pkk** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:38 pm

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Dec 13 2007, 08:34 PM) That would be like saying Internet Explorer is great to use with Allegiance as they are both made by the same company.

No, Allegiance requiers IE. If you remove IE from your machine, Allegiance isn't working anymore. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:51 pm

pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Dec 13 2007, 12:38 PM) No, Allegiance requiers IE. If you remove IE from your machine, Allegiance isn't working anymore. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

o.0

You can't play Allegiance if you remove IE? That's bizzare? /huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

Anyway you get the idea. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />