Single most important thing

[Malicious Wraith]

I had proposed earlier a matchmaking system would have needed to be created, to allow players to compete in a realistic ladder with balanced games, similar to other F2P games such as League of Legends.

The ship has long sailed on that one though, as the critical mass needed to support any sort of matchmaking is entirely gone.

[raumvogel]

Yea, the best thing right now it seems is to create a single player game and hope someone wants to command against you before you get completely bored.

[sambasti]

Another lurker here to agree with the general feelings expressed by elzam. The general response to elzam of "why haven't you fixed anything" is especially fitting, since telling the messenger they should go back and solve the problem on their own (or the messenger is wrong, there is no problem and allegiance is clearly not dying) has been the response to people warning of things for years, and it's one of the big reasons we're (or I guess you're, I'll explain that in a sec) are here. There's a reason that strategy has not, and will not, ever work. Those of us who make these "doomsday" posts, or even start the doomsday threads, generally do so because we've become disillusioned with the game. I suspect elzams story arc in allegiance is vaguely similar to mine, since I would guess we were of similar age when we started. That would mean that he like me tried to make his way in the community, played for a while, maybe found a few friends, probably eventually posted in some threads complaining how too many people are @#$%@#s and it's ruining the game, then decided it wasn't worth his time and left when he stopped having fun. Most likely he, like me, is back in this thread because he loved the game, and wishes things had gone differently, but is aware there is nothing left for him here. Now he's banging his head against the monitor and getting sucked into making angry posts because he continues to see the same absolute stupidity and ignorance that ruined this game for him, and now at least he gets to look it into the eye and say "told you so".



Although I must say, now that numbers are <100, at least the "alleg is not dying" bull@#(! has stopped. Still, it's only made "fix it yourself" more common... If someone called you and said they stopped using linux or something because it sucks and the community's a *#$@, would you really reply to that email with "WELL, I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU FIX IT?!?! GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR!" Here in allegiance, we do, or at least did back when there were still people to chase away.



Sorry, I had a nostalgia trip, I'm going to preempt the "if you hate it why don't you stop posting and leave" people and go back under my rock.

EDIT: I just saw the post above mine. Ironically, I left because I couldn't try new @#(! without getting mutinied, and just doing the same @#(! over and over did not make for fun commanding. Food for thought.

[raumvogel]

Rumor has it that Imago is fixing it right now.

[Vortrog]

QUOTE (sambasti @ Nov 29 2013, 04:25 PM) Although I must say, now that numbers are <100, at least the "alleg is not dying" bull@#(! has stopped. Still, it's only made "fix it yourself" more common... If someone called you and said they stopped using linux or something because it sucks and the community's a *#$@, would you really reply to that email with "WELL, I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU FIX IT?!?! GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR!" Here in allegiance, we do, or at least did back when there were still people to chase away.

So, explain whats wrong with the logic? Have you been involved in a volunteer organisation in RL? Because if you and Elzam had, i think you would revise your above statement.

I am now a coaching coordinator for a rugby club. No matter what you do you wont please everyone, but you need to do the best you can knowing that it wont be appreciated anyway fornthe sake of the majority who will. I suspect if the people who were responsible for fixing things and are no longer here could post the same complaint.

By the way, I love Dome. He gets shot down for trying @#(! but keeps on trucking despite noone appreciating it.

[badpazzword]

The problem is that there is (perceived) value in saying there is a problem so long as people are in denial about the problem's existence.

[notjarvis]

QUOTE (sambasti @ Nov 29 2013, 06:25 AM) Although I must say, now that numbers are <100, at least the "alleg is not dying" bull@#(! has stopped. Still, it's only made "fix it yourself" more common... If someone called you and said they stopped using linux or something because it sucks and the community's a *#$@, would you really reply to that email with "WELL, I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU FIX IT?!?! GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR!" Here in allegiance, we do, or at least did back when there were still people to chase away.

There's a difference between "calling" someone and saying that and posting it on the main linux forums saying linux is @#(!. In the second case I don't doubt you would get some abuse from that community. It's in the nature of online discussion (and as Vort points out open volunteer organisations).

I'm not arguing it's good, just saying it's the nature of how the medium is used., there different social norms on-line, and different inflections from the typed word.

QUOTE (badp @ Nov 29 2013, 10:10 AM) The problem is that there is (perceived) value in saying there is a problem so long as people are in denial about the problem's existence.

I kindof agree with that - but I dispute that many were in denial. I think it was more -"Why say it's dead/dying when it's still alive most nights? It's not helping to say that."

I think few people are in denial the problem really exists (I don't think there was much denial in the past really - anyone with eyes could see the numbers declining year on year for the last 5 years at least).

There really is little value in pointing out things that are pretty obvious to anyone with a little sense, it can make you look a little arrogant.

To people who have spent hours of their own time (and in many cases substantial amounts of money) in keeping Alleg. alive as long as it has - it can feel like you are in effect saying - "I see this problem, yet no-one has before me - now go and fix it in your own time."
To people who still enjoy the game greatly - it can just seem like you are badmouthing something they enjoy (as not everyone's experience is the same, plenty of people like the trolling and stuff, even if you don't).
To all - just making posts complaining about this or can be unhelpful, it gives a poor impression of the game for newbies (granted the responses are as bad), and just complaining alone has rarely helped anything.


So people who make such posts get abuse (because, as I said, social norms are a bit different online - just look at twitter).
And for the people who made the post this becomes justification for why they left ("the community are mostly/all asshats - right?"). And a reason to become bitter about a game they once enjoyed.

[MrChaos]

Here is how I see it

An old school place like these forums has a long memory and it is hard to get out of the dog house once you get put in it right or wrong by the community. A few make it all the way out to be seen as leaders, most build a core group of buddies and over time receive the classic get out of jail card with most of the community, a few stay an outsider and become the classic paste eating, locker stuffed troll.

In Elzam's case he started off on the wrong foot with his silly posts in the development forum and poor response to the flaming. IMHO his behaviour after kept him in the dog house. Now he looks at things and just cannot help himself to taunt those who still play because he doesn't anymore and he is getting a few return shots because it costs him next to nothing.

I have ALWAYS known Sambasti to be a credit to himself, squad, and game. Frankly I am shocked that he is was as young as he apparently was when he joined the community. The continuing mutinies were not something I witnessed but like being booted it can feel personal... especially when it is done regularly. So he left in frustration after really trying to do his own quiet part to make things better.

badp is my home boy starting from back in the days that we where classmates when Deng and BV ran cadet. I reached out to him personally to help what has to be about a year or so ago now. He VERY politely told me no, and why. At first blush I was a bit taken aback by the tone of his recent posts. After reflection realized he was peeved that he DID do stuff while part of the community and while giving his "What cheesed me off so much I left" list got the typical response of fix it or stfu and play or go the $#@! away.

Bacon has shared, one might say over shared, details of his personal life on these forums through out the years and suffered some epic trolling at times over it. When he did finally step forward to fix something he saw as a key concern, it put a target on his back drawing a good deal of less then positive feedback. He wants the game to die because he doesn't play anymore but still wants those he likes come with him to the next game. To be fair there are any number of people who had a similar but less vocal reaction to their own break up with Allegiance.

notJarvis is a prince of person who was sadly and routinely mistreated by a few of the school yard bullies here. He stepped forward to help and no matter how hard he worked at it got @#(!. He hung in there doing his part long after the entire thing stopped being fun for him is my guess and never lost his cool. If there is any one person in these responses who deserves to be bitter it is him.

MrChaos is a cup of tea with either a spoon full of sugar or salt added randomly and not for everyone. He too in his own fumbling way tried to help out and got the usual feedback for his efforts. Never quite leaving and nor stfu while trying to do it he has finally, and most would say correctly, reached the derision levels with the community. Stung by it he went *meh* (again) and now haunts the forums. He does this for the same reason many of those mentioned and not mentioned do it.

In a vague hope something will change so they can hop in game now and then to see old friends/foes. Generally followed by petulant feelings that it has not happened yet. Leading occasionally to a walk down memory lane with delusions of deeper insight. This seems to be quite common amongst us all and on rare occasions someone is driven to start a thread like this one.

Its like watching a drunk shoutng match where your family and friends hurl insults and family secerts at each other during your wedding reception. I used to get right in there too but now I usually take part of lexaal's advice and just STFU... usually


This is still MrChaos and I approve this message

edit: changed per Raveen's comment

[Raveen]

It's not the strength of the tea, it's the ambiguity over whether that was a spoon of sugar or salt that went into it.

[that_bloke]

First time i've logged onto these forums in a loooong time (i think, i take no responsibility for things that happen drunk)

It makes me sad to see that the game is really struggling, as it truly is perhaps the best game ever created if you like that sort of thing (i do)

Now that i'm long gone, i feel safe to comment. There are some really nice fellas here, Mr C, Notjarvis spring to mind, BUT, but but but, the COMMUNITY is poison unless you already have that thick skin. I would enjoy a game, post in forum and then regret it. Then again, and again. I really wanted to enjoy some space fightin' with some like minded fellas, but it was all so serious. Grumpy serious.

When you're at the foot of that learning curve, getting (probably well justified but unnecessarily personal) grief from people who've played for years, it can be and was....discouraging, literally.


After another technical issue following another balancing patch, i decided i didn't need the agro.

Quick edit -- I found this thread a second ago where i tried to say i was happy to have been playing a year. This was pretty typical of my forum experience. Remember, this is a new player who really likes the game, has been telling friends and wants to play. I imagine my experience was fairly typical http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...p;hl=that_bloke

I hope you survive. Have fun.

Bloke