10/10/2010

Allegiance discussion not belonging in another forum.
pkk
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Post by pkk »

notjarvis wrote:QUOTE (notjarvis @ Sep 15 2010, 04:42 PM) A number of Beta Wednesday's were screwed up because of people late checking in code which caused issues. This was not Bard's fault.
To bad almost all beta Wednesday topics on news forum are gone... :whistle:
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
badpazzword
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Post by badpazzword »

TE: hey guys lookie
Spidey: sigh
vogue: sigh
RealPandemonium: sigh
SpacePenguin: uh?
KGJV: YP
Psy: meh. HALO!!!!
TE: HALO!!!!
Sp4wn: HALO!!!!
TE: YE HALO!!!!
Gui: HALO!!!!
Trasher: HALO!!!!
Duck: sigh
Aeris: sigh
Wurf: sigh
Sai: HALO!!!!
Shiz: meh
Orion: XT conspiracy!!
Shiz: lolnub
Orion: orly?
Adaven: yarly
Fishbone: HOW DARE THEY TOUCH MY PRECIOUS ALLEG IT IS TEH PERFECTEST EVER
BV: meh
Sambasti: maybe it's tag 2.0!
RealP: maybe!
FreeB: <3 bv
OTDT: <3 bv
Icky: <3 bv
Rav: <3 bv
Imago: tag sux
Peet: sigh
Sp4wn: I said, HALO!!!!!!!!111one
pkk: maybe it is!
peet: maybe!
Imago: lolno
TE: $#@! you
Adept: sigh
pkk: btw trac is down
Uncle: no it isn't
pkk: yes it is
¬j: no it isn't
pkk: yes. it. is.
MrC: sigh
TE: Imago brought it down
Kage: compete or sink! and CC sucks. they've been conservative, so what? step up if you can best spidey
Girly: both will sink
Imago: $#@! you TE
pkk: it'd help if you were around last two years yknow
HSharp: M$ is watching
Pico: meh
Uncle: yes CC sucks
Ryj: fail
Hellsyng: fail
MrC: aww
Uncle: meh
Hellsyng: you're Jimen's sockpuppet rite?
Uncle: so what?
Hellsyng: so stop
Xynth: yeah, there's no change if you all didn't actively fight it it'd help
TB: why does this exist to begin with
Sambasti: are people that unhappy? rly?
MrC: it's just drama
Wurf: oh oh oh what about ASGS polls!
Rav: they may try but there just aren't enough players
Spidey: lol kage
Peet: it's just a page with a countdown jeez
Phantom: nitpick lol
Adept: split? with YP? srsly?
Orion: it's just a page with a countdown jeez
jbansk: There is zero development! because somebody killed it! and zero testing! because it's known broken, now stop posting and fix it
Sambasti: can't we all get along?
Xynth: I just don't want to work on dead stuff
Orion: hold that thought
MrC: <3 Sambasti
Brood: I want CSS and a 3,000 words essay finished tomorrow in my PM inbox
Spidey: Orion's on it
Orion: no it's BT
Imago: please discard last six months' of work please don't
Clay: 2+2 = the split's real
Shiz: who let Imago out the madhouse anyway?
BT: err, 2+2 = 4
Clay: I'm working in base 4
Aeris: QUANTUS!
Girly: Quantus?
BT: I prefer base 3 personally
jbansk: Bard sucks because we don't want him! who is it you want exactly? You should have stepped down! "so we could've continued complaining thumbs in ass because we don't have a ZL!" TE bring Bard down!
TE: $#@! you. Pick a ZL, then we'll talk.
Freyja: Holy TE
¬j: Pick a ZL, then we'll talk.
Imago: viva la revoluçion!
Aeris: lol freyja
Girly: lol freyja
Heyoka: I'm splitting my own community. It has unicorns. You're all $#@!ed.
jbansk: you can't read our mind? $#@! off!
Icky: how about it's you who goes the $#@! off
jbansk: he should've read our mind! his fault! all his!
Imago: fail Icky
raumvogel: if you stopped backseating, Imago... nail. head.
fishbone: bah Kage
Icky: imago accompany jbansk the $#@! off
KJGV: who are the devs anyway? stfu and code
TE: jbansk you haven't answered yet
Archer: stfu and play
MrC: Xynth go fix lag
Orion: TE you really don't pick ZLs?
Jimen snipped $#@! you Jimen
¬j: $#@! you Jimen
Sp4wn: $#@! you Jimen
Clay: sigh
badp: sigh
Last edited by badpazzword on Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jbansk
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Post by jbansk »

Tigereye wrote:QUOTE (Tigereye @ Sep 15 2010, 12:15 AM) Yeah - I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.
If I were to flex my Internet muscles and issue some form of decree that "Soandso is not in charge, deal with it" then people would yell at me for being a dictator.
Your internet muscles weren't needed. Your common sense was. I said use your influence as a fellow leader to salvage the situation. If I thought you should use your "Power" (not to be confused with authority) I would have used that word, but I chose "influence" because it was the proper and most politically correct method to address Bard.
QUOTE If I were to do as I did and try to let the community manage itself, then jbansk will yell at me for not stepping up to the plate when he feels I should have.[/quote]
We as community members are responsible for providing the necessary resources and support in areas we focus our efforts or goals; in this case the development department. Clearly, Bard and the Active Dev Team were not compatible. Your inaction, along with everyone else who turned a blind eye or deaf ear, is irresponsible regardless of what part of this community you/we/they belong to. The community as a whole had the obligation to act / step up to the plate as you call it.
QUOTE Looking back, I would have made the same decisions. The only different choice I think I would have made would be to try to communicate more.[/quote]
Same decisions!?... "try to let the community manage itself"?!? Again, YOU, I and everyone who reads this is part of this community. If we are to "manage ourselves" then we must ACT when these departments are broken, dysfunctional or need our attention. That's what managing is. Turning a blind eye and deaf ear is not what I consider acceptable from anyone who considers themselves to be a member of this community. We now have a guy who is absolutely useless, in a position that is now pointless, and we have no active Dev Team at all. I just have to ask: Communicate what and to whom?
QUOTE ...Apparently jbansk would rather me choose which direction we go in unilaterally without consulting anyone else.[/quote]
Where is this "Apparent"? Did I say you should choose which direction we go? Did I suggest you should not consult anyone?

Using your INFLUENCE and asking Bard to step down for the sake of salvaging the Dev Team is not "choosing a direction".
QUOTE Alliances. Saved ship loadouts. And countless other features that IMHO are freaking AMAZING.
Rushing these before proper testing will cause problems. Claiming that the delay in this release is evidence that the entire community is dying is shortsighted.[/quote]
Claiming that the delay in this release is evidence that the entire community is dying *WOULD* be shortsighted. Fortunately, nobody made such a claim.

Evidence that the entire community is dying can be found on the Servers, the Leaderboard and Squad listings. That is a totally different issue however, and should not be associated with this specific matter.
[15:25] <BBT_> oh, so da vinci's mona lisa isn't his work?
[15:25] <+fuh-zz> No, he simply put effort into it.
[15:25] <BBT_> are you really that retarded?
badpazzword
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Post by badpazzword »

jbansk wrote:QUOTE (jbansk @ Sep 15 2010, 06:18 PM) Your internet muscles weren't needed. Your common sense was. I said use your influence
Use his influence to choose who?
jbansk wrote:QUOTE (jbansk @ Sep 15 2010, 06:18 PM) Clearly, Bard and the Active Dev Team were not compatible.
Who is?
jbansk wrote:QUOTE (jbansk @ Sep 15 2010, 06:18 PM) Your inaction
in not choosing who?
jbansk wrote:QUOTE (jbansk @ Sep 15 2010, 06:18 PM) If we are to "manage ourselves" then we must ACT
and choose who?
jbansk wrote:QUOTE (jbansk @ Sep 15 2010, 06:18 PM) Did I say you should choose which direction we go?
Yes, you said TE should go the direction of kicking Bard. And replace him with whom?
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Makida
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Post by Makida »

lol badp
Xynth
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Post by Xynth »

badp is right. Bard is better than no one in the ZL position.

Imago and Kage are gone from doing FAO dev work, so that means we have to sort out what goes in R6 and then we are pretty much limited to minor bug fixes and game tweaks. Bard should be able to handle that. More forum drama, including posting large 101010 for lulz threads, is not necessary.
Last edited by Xynth on Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jbansk
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Post by jbansk »

badp wrote:QUOTE (badp @ Sep 15 2010, 12:35 PM) Use his influence to choose who?
...Who is?
...in not choosing who?
...and choose who?
Are you suggesting we should NOT ask an individual to step out of his position because we don't have a "who" to replace him with? That logic suggests that having Bard as DL with no active Dev Team to lead is an acceptable trade for the productively active Dev Team that lacked a DL.

QUOTE Yes, you said TE should go the direction of kicking Bard. And replace him with whom?[/quote]
Pulled right out of your ass. Any reader can see that I never made such a comment. Your misquoting of my statements; demonstrates you're reading into my text what you want to hear me say so as to make your position appear correct or valid.

Further, your additional "replace him with whom" suggests you're using that ridiculous logic that not having a DL replacement for Bard somehow justifies our inaction.
[15:25] <BBT_> oh, so da vinci's mona lisa isn't his work?
[15:25] <+fuh-zz> No, he simply put effort into it.
[15:25] <BBT_> are you really that retarded?
badpazzword
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Post by badpazzword »

You may be missing out on the fact there has been a nearly identical thread where the dev team asked for a ZL.

Oh and: « Clearly, Bard and the Active Dev Team were not compatible. [TE's] inaction [in handling this situation] is irresponsible »
Last edited by badpazzword on Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jimen
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Post by Jimen »

badp wrote:QUOTE (badp @ Sep 15 2010, 12:35 PM) who Who who who whom
Well, since the "Dev ZL" position is that of a Zone Leader, a Representative of the Community, maybe we could open it up to a community vote! I understand that you're going to try and make some pithy comeback about how there's no way the unwashed masses could possibly understand the intricacies of choosing a Dev ZL...and I agree. Not many people understand the actual job requirements. However, the philosopher king douchebags behind the curtain haven't exactly done a fantastic job of picking good dev leads either, so if they're finally out of ideas, I don't see why we can't open up the dialogue a bit.
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UncleBuck
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Post by UncleBuck »

Pardon my ignorance but why do we need a dev ZL?

If something is added, its tested on beta wenesday, then its released. Why do we need some central authority?
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