10/10/2010

[Icky]

QUOTE (jbansk @ Sep 14 2010, 09:10 PM) TE IS a part of this community as are you and I. He carries influence that other ZL's take seriously and he should have used that influence to avoid this situation. His influence could have salvaged the dev department had he used it. To take the position of "it's not my place", is completely irresponsible, especially for an Admin.

QUOTE (Imago @ Sep 14 2010, 09:18 PM) I actually LOLd at this.

Don't let the screen door hit your ass on the way out.

[KGJV]

QUOTE (notjarvis @ Sep 14 2010, 08:25 PM) The Dev's singularly failed to come up with anyone both times they were asked. before Cort, and before Bard.
What makes you think if we ask them again it will be any different.

I think the first question would be to ask who are the Dev's....

How can a leader be chosen when the team is not even known...

IMHO, the only remaining devs I see are Imago and Xynth...

Should people who never really contributed or are inactive be counted as devs and their opinion inquired ? I think not.

So just ask Imago and Xynth who they want.

And if Imago is gone, well just make Xynth Dev ZL then.

(and before you ask, I'm not counting myself because i'm already in another team and with no leadership issue).

[Tigereye]

QUOTE (jbansk @ Sep 14 2010, 09:10 PM) TE IS a part of this community as are you and I. He carries influence that other ZL's take seriously and he should have used that influence to avoid this situation. His influence could have salvaged the dev department had he used it. To take the position of "it's not my place", is completely irresponsible, especially for an Admin.

Yeah - I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

If I were to flex my Internet muscles and issue some form of decree that "Soandso is not in charge, deal with it" then people would yell at me for being a dictator.
If I were to do as I did and try to let the community manage itself, then jbansk will yell at me for not stepping up to the plate when he feels I should have.

Looking back, I would have made the same decisions. The only different choice I think I would have made would be to try to communicate more.

Frankly I prefer a group of people who collectively decide whats going on than a community that is ruled by an iron fist. Apparently jbansk would rather me choose which direction we go in unilaterally without consulting anyone else.
Everyone has their viewpoint.

Once again, I'd like to remind the drama queens that out of every "zone" within our community, only one is moving more slowly than the vocal minority would like. Every other area within this community is working VERY well thank-you-very-much. Using development as a meter to judge the entire community structure is a logical fallacy in and of itself. Yeah R6 is a long time coming, but so was R5, R4, R3, R2, and hell: even R1. Do you remember that it took like 6 years for the first community revision of this game to ever come out in the first place?

Yeah R6 is taking some time. Yeah some developers like to think they can release something sooner without waiting for peer review. But looking back, we've only waited a fraction of what this community has encountered in the past... and in this case we have so much more reason to wait.
So many amazing features have been lumped into R6 that it is without doubt the BIGGEST change to the game in a long-ass time.
Alliances. Saved ship loadouts. And countless other features that IMHO are freaking AMAZING.
Rushing these before proper testing will cause problems. Claiming that the delay in this release is evidence that the entire community is dying is shortsighted.

Let's take a step back from the game-of-drama and remember that we're here for the game-of-allegiance.

--TE

[Archer14]

QUOTE (Tigereye @ Sep 14 2010, 09:15 PM) Let's take a step back from the game-of-drama and remember that we're here for the game-of-allegiance.

--TE

There. Read this and be done with it. Good-bye

[MrChaos]

Xynth

I have one for your shovel.

Dig up the bug that was introduced that causes people machines to st-utt-ter. People whine about it being "lag", and sometimes Im sure it is, but many times connections are clean and green but the game becomes unplayable for minutes at a time. I personally think it was introduced in the R5 release but it could be any number of things. Do that and you'll go a long way to fixing a major drag on player retention.

Oh and Allainces was an R5 release.

[Orion]

QUOTE (Tigereye @ Sep 14 2010, 11:15 PM) Yeah - I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

If I were to flex my Internet muscles and issue some form of decree that "Soandso is not in charge, deal with it" then people would yell at me for being a dictator.
If I were to do as I did and try to let the community manage itself, then jbansk will yell at me for not stepping up to the plate when he feels I should have.

Looking back, I would have made the same decisions. The only different choice I think I would have made would be to try to communicate more.

Frankly I prefer a group of people who collectively decide whats going on than a community that is ruled by an iron fist. Apparently jbansk would rather me choose which direction we go in unilaterally without consulting anyone else.
Everyone has their viewpoint.

Once again, I'd like to remind the drama queens that out of every "zone" within our community, only one is moving more slowly than the vocal minority would like. Every other area within this community is working VERY well thank-you-very-much. Using development as a meter to judge the entire community structure is a logical fallacy in and of itself. Yeah R6 is a long time coming, but so was R5, R4, R3, R2, and hell: even R1. Do you remember that it took like 6 years for the first community revision of this game to ever come out in the first place?

Yeah R6 is taking some time. Yeah some developers like to think they can release something sooner without waiting for peer review. But looking back, we've only waited a fraction of what this community has encountered in the past... and in this case we have so much more reason to wait.
So many amazing features have been lumped into R6 that it is without doubt the BIGGEST change to the game in a long-ass time.
Alliances. Saved ship loadouts. And countless other features that IMHO are freaking AMAZING.
Rushing these before proper testing will cause problems. Claiming that the delay in this release is evidence that the entire community is dying is shortsighted.

Let's take a step back from the game-of-drama and remember that we're here for the game-of-allegiance.

--TE

I think jbanks or whatever his name is point is not that he wants you to be a dictator, but that you're not being honest when you throw your hands up in the air and say "don't look at me, I'm not in charge, I just do what the zone leaders tell me".. It seems like you're calling the shots whether you want it that way or not, whether it's true or not, whether that's good or not. I'm not making any judgement here, but it seems to me that a lot of what goes on around here revolves around your say so.

When you throw your hands in the air and say "don't look at me, I'm not in charge", and the zone leaders throw their hands in the air and say "I dont know, I'll have to ask TE", it seems like we're a headless chicken.

[Jimen]

QUOTE (Tigereye @ Sep 15 2010, 12:15 AM) If I were to flex my Internet muscles and issue some form of decree that "Soandso is not in charge, deal with it" then people would yell at me for being a dictator.
If I were to do as I did and try to let the community manage itself, then jbansk will yell at me for not stepping up to the plate when he feels I should have.

Looking back, I would have made the same decisions. The only different choice I think I would have made would be to try to communicate more.

Frankly I prefer a group of people who collectively decide whats going on than a community that is ruled by an iron fist. Apparently jbansk would rather me choose which direction we go in unilaterally without consulting anyone else.
Everyone has their viewpoint.

So who decides what's going on? Who IS capable of replacing a ZL? You say that it's not yourself. Is it the community? If someone is able to positively demonstrate community sentiment regarding the removal of a ZL (already a herculean task, since you wouldn't accept anything on the forums as a valid expression of the community's will), would it happen? No, because nobody asks the community before appointing ZLs in the first place either - I sure as hell don't remember voting for Bard, and the new Training ZL was decided behind closed doors as well. So if the community doesn't choose ZLs and the community can't remove ZLs, then it's a dictatorship regardless of how many people share absolute leadership. And if every single person who could claim to be in charge wants to say "well I really don't run anything, it's all in the community's hands, no, honest", then the administrative system makes Soviet Russia look like a $#@!ing dream of efficiency and democracy by comparison.

QUOTE Once again, I'd like to remind the drama queens that out of every "zone" within our community, only one is moving more slowly than the vocal minority would like. Every other area within this community is working VERY well thank-you-very-much. Using development as a meter to judge the entire community structure is a logical fallacy in and of itself. Yeah R6 is a long time coming, but so was R5, R4, R3, R2, and hell: even R1. Do you remember that it took like 6 years for the first community revision of this game to ever come out in the first place?[/quote]
Sounds great till you realize that the only zones that are SUPPOSED to "move" at all are the CC Zone and the Dev Zone - all other zones only really need to maintain the status quo. And nobody cares how fast the Dev Zone moves...so long as it moves at the pace that the DEVELOPERS set. The reason people get pissed off about the fact R6 has ground to a halt is that literally every single dev has complained at some point about progress being held up by administrative issues and outright mismanagement. Bard's become publicly branded as the bottleneck in development, and as you may recall from the last thread about you, PEOPLE HATE BOTTLENECKS.

QUOTE Yeah R6 is taking some time. Yeah some developers like to think they can release something sooner without waiting for peer review. But looking back, we've only waited a fraction of what this community has encountered in the past... and in this case we have so much more reason to wait.
So many amazing features have been lumped into R6 that it is without doubt the BIGGEST change to the game in a long-ass time.
Alliances. Saved ship loadouts. And countless other features that IMHO are freaking AMAZING.
Rushing these before proper testing will cause problems. Claiming that the delay in this release is evidence that the entire community is dying is shortsighted.

Let's take a step back from the game-of-drama and remember that we're here for the game-of-allegiance.

--TE[/quote]
Yeah, nice dig on the devteam there, TE. Those dumb developers! How DARE they code things and then hope to see them released! Step back and ask yourself why "proper testing" hasn't happened yet in the first place, eh? Maybe if Bard would stop breaking beta already, we could beta test...

[notjarvis]

QUOTE (Jimen @ Sep 15 2010, 03:34 PM) Maybe if Bard would stop breaking beta already, we could beta test...

Ignoring the rest of your post for the minute.

This is demonstrably false.

A number of Beta Wednesday's were screwed up because of people late checking in code which caused issues. This was not Bard's fault.

There are a number of undocumented changes to the code and the Beta Server which are recently causing difficulties with setting it up to run a successful beta. Did Bard make those changes? No.

Edit:
If you have issues getting into Beta, I suggest you follow Bard's advice in the news post and PM him.

[SP4WN]

I'm not sure where your beef with NotJ comes from Jimen. I dont know if its because of the way cadet was before he took over or whether its a personal thing.

I will say as someone who ran Cadet for a while, he is doing a very good job of getting new things in place, making the whole process run much smoother and faster for the Cadet's and the Cadet Instructors. This is also not a dig at the way Cadet used to be run either, it is just that with the fresh blood in charge things are becoming more up to date.

[Clay_Pigeon]