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I was referring more to protecting them from the people with bad attitudes, which is something cashto was alluding to (note the bold part of the quote). I think having people to help newbies is an excellent idea, especially for the ones that are overwhelmed by all the details and nuances. I actually think a @help / @alleg run sidegame wouldn't be a bad idea either.

some perspective from someone just returning to allegiance:


Most games these days are pretty, easy, and stupid. Because of this most gamers who started after (2003? 2005? dunno the exact date) are bad and stupid. Allegiance is a game that requires more intelligence for PUGs than many other FPS-like games require for competitive squad play. Because of this, most people are going to say "this is stupid" when trying allegiance and go back to their slutty bimbo games that don't require any game/skill whatsoever. you just point and click and things go boom/splat. nice mindless entertainment.


So in order to increase noob retention it would be necessary to make the game easier, at least for noobs.


Aiming in allegiance is hard. It requires knowledge of the speed of the bullets and the ability to lead in a 3D vector space where the other guy is trying to dodge. Most games these days don't require leading at all so it is not a skill new gamers are going to have coming in. they're used to their call of doodie or borefield PUGs where they can get some kills no matter how bad they are just by pointing and clicking. Now add in deflection shots, etc., that you get from 3D movement and you have a lot of noobs who cant even hit a bomber from 200 meters.

This is frustrating. Again, they're used to other games which are easy. Hell, i know how to aim in allegiance and these days i can barely hit a bomber from 200. You're simply not going to retain people if they don't have fun. They have fun by blowing stuff up. They can't blow stuff up. QED. In addition, y'all have gotten very good at aiming in the 6 or so years i've been gone. I die way quicker now than I used too and i can even remember how to dodge (except in bricks, I can't fly those things at all). So they can't blow stuff up and get podded quickly. Double QED.


Solutions? Um, more lead indicators? thats about the only thing i can think of. maybe lead indicators for every weapon on the newbie server. probably impossible from a back end perspective but it would at least get them in the right zip code as far as leading w/o an indicator.


This leads to the next problem; the things a newbie can do to be useful are simply not very fun. Scouting/probing etc is not fun to most people. Hell, even nanning in a big furball isn't fun to most people. no fun = no retention. You're spending a bunch or effort steering noobs to these things (correctly) but you're simply not going to retain many people doing this.


Allegiance had pretty good retention when M$ first launched it b/c everybody was pretty bad (compared to now) plus there were more servers where people could jump in and screw around. I cut my teeth on random FZ servers with 4-5 people per side and worked my way up. there's no teeth cutting here.





You could also make a "read while downloading" page or something while people DL the game/install. you kinda have those things already but they're all links someone can follow if they want to. A basic intro that you automatically go to when you click the DL link may help. explaining why aiming is hard might help too. if people are expecting it to be hard they might see it as a challenge or something. but either way retention is going to be bad no matter what...it's the problem all games at this stage have.



PS: maybe some sort of "rookie league" that is a step above the newbie server. give it a signup and have it moderated to give people a chance to fly against relative equals.

civilde wrote:QUOTE (civilde @ Jun 15 2009, 07:29 PM) some perspective from someone just returning to allegiance:


Most games these days are pretty, easy, and stupid. Because of this most gamers who started after (2003? 2005? dunno the exact date) are bad and stupid. Allegiance is a game that requires more intelligence for PUGs than many other FPS-like games require for competitive squad play. Because of this, most people are going to say "this is stupid" when trying allegiance and go back to their slutty bimbo games that don't require any game/skill whatsoever. you just point and click and things go boom/splat. nice mindless entertainment.


This leads to the next problem; the things a newbie can do to be useful are simply not very fun. Scouting/probing etc is not fun to most people. Hell, even nanning in a big furball isn't fun to most people. no fun = no retention. You're spending a bunch or effort steering noobs to these things (correctly) but you're simply not going to retain many people doing this.


Allegiance had pretty good retention when M$ first launched it b/c everybody was pretty bad (compared to now) plus there were more servers where people could jump in and screw around. I cut my teeth on random FZ servers with 4-5 people per side and worked my way up. there's no teeth cutting here.

I am MrChaos and Approve These Parts of the Message ( welcome back )

Good idea!

I would be happy to fly with this tag and be avaliable to help newer players as best i can.

(Once I am online more consistently in the next week or so)

wtf people are still posting?
die

Broodwich wrote:QUOTE (Broodwich @ Jun 16 2009, 12:16 AM) wtf people are still posting?
die

When this becomes active, we need to give Brood an @NoHelp tag.

Ok, I'm back. Had some RL to take care of first.

***

Good point about the game being especially hard to get into because there are only a handful of newbs at a time on your own skill level, and a lot of vets who splat you in passing. Strangely enough if we had more newbs, it would also be easier for the newbs to get into the game, as they wouldn't be the absolute newcomer in a semi professional team sport from day 1... well, not the only one

***

Anyway, I think the @help crew will... uh, help in a small way with some of this. I'm awailable, and even willng to take the responsibility for this if the admins can make it happen (I'll be approaching BV & TigerEye officially, hopefully later today).

There are other things we can, and I feel must do to make Allegiance more accessible. Nothing to do with the glorious gameplay, but rather what happens when you find the game and install it for the first time... but that is the subject of another post. Stay tuned.

PS. We are at eactly 600 actives on the leaderboard as I write this. It has been a slow & steady decline from 1000+ 2 years ago.

I've already posted a discussion for the ZLs to discuss this idea.

More newbies to splat! Brood why are you complaining!? Pew pew!

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Jun 17 2009, 11:15 AM) I've already posted a discussion for the ZLs to discuss this idea.

Nice