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Posted: **Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:13 pm**

Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Aug 20 2012, 07:01 PM) If you disagree with this premise, then NE is a non-starter anyway.

I do disagree with that premise. The idea as I understood it was to even out capacities and stop small he setting changes from killing balance.

Factions have been balanced with the idea that he capacity doesn't matter much for ages now. Making significant changes to the balance of faction econs is a different topic that should be addressed in a separate update. It's not like dreg really needs a major nerf right now for example.

Posted: **Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:23 pm**

Nightflame wrote:QUOTE (Nightflame @ Aug 21 2012, 10:13 AM) I do disagree with that premise. The idea as I understood it was to even out capacities and stop small he setting changes from killing balance.

Factions have been balanced with the idea that he capacity doesn't matter much for ages now. Making significant changes to the balance of faction econs is a different topic that should be addressed in a separate update. It's not like dreg really needs a major nerf right now for example.

Yeah but it's inherent to the whole concept. You will either boost miners at high total money settings, or nerf them at normal total money settings, that's how the game works - regardless of whether you do it in the core with game settings. The difference is when we do it in the core nobody can mess with the balance. So the only remaining question is which way you would go, which set of factions you would favor.

Ignoring the He capacity issue doesn't suddenly make it "not matter much". 5K/load giga is not the same as 9K/load giga and 5K/load GT is not the same as 7K/load GT. Somebody is getting $#@!ed no matter how you handle it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:05 pm**

Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Aug 21 2012, 02:35 AM) How is this, with no yield below 1:

Code: Select all

        C     S     Y
Belters 0.8   0.6   1.25
NE      1     0.5   1.25

Dreg    0.75  0.65  1.25
NE      1     0.6   1.15

IC      0.75  0.85  1
NE      1     0.65  1

Omicron 0.85  1     1
NE      1     0.85  1

TF      0.55  2     1
NE      0.55  1.5   1

Give dreg 1.25 yield and we can give this a try. with 1.25 cost even for cons dreg do really need that money

Posted: **Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:26 pm**

Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Aug 21 2012, 04:23 PM) Yeah but it's inherent to the whole concept. You will either boost miners at high total money settings, or nerf them at normal total money settings, that's how the game works - regardless of whether you do it in the core with game settings. The difference is when we do it in the core nobody can mess with the balance. So the only remaining question is which way you would go, which set of factions you would favor.

Ignoring the He capacity issue doesn't suddenly make it "not matter much". 5K/load giga is not the same as 9K/load giga and 5K/load GT is not the same as 7K/load GT. Somebody is getting $#@!ed no matter how you handle it.

Right, but within 'normal' (<=high, med size map) settings, it's pretty much one load a rock, period. So in the settings we consider semi balanced, it really doesn't matter too much. Current balance outside of typically used settings is completely irrelevant. We should try to keep the new settings sort of around that balance.

Belts, IC, and dreg don't always get a full rock. Nerfing speed a bit isn't unreasonable. I think changing IC down to .65 is overkill, but I won't split that hair. However, yield affects money/sector. In the situations that matters, you're scraping. Scraping grabs anything you would have left on the rock the first time anyway, so I dislike messing with yield.

There's also TF. 1.5 speed from 2.0 is a straight nerf. I'm not objecting really -- I think it worked well in xc -- but it's separate from the issue of capacity balance.

Bah, too many poorly articulated words. My proposed values for current balance:

Code: Select all

        C     S     Y
Belters 0.8   0.6   1.25 
NE      1     0.54  1.25 (0.8+1)/2 * 0.6

Dreg    0.75  0.65  1.25
NE      1     0.57  1.25 (0.75+1)/2 * 0.65

IC      0.75  0.85  1
NE      1     0.75  1    (0.75+1)/2 * 0.85

Omicron 0.85  1.1   1
NE      1     1     1    (0.85+1)/2 * 1.1

TF      0.55  2     1
NE      0.50  2     1    Two loads per normal load.

OH, and maybe TF/belters could use a nerf from there, but I'd use this as the base. I won't try to touch giga. Specmines are always going to be more of an issue with them anyway.

Posted: **Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:50 pm**

Hm, I see, you are trying to kind of shoot the middle, accept capacity increase will be a boost, but also acknowledge the majority of the time it may not apply if sensible settings are used.

Posted: **Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:57 pm**

Code: Select all

General Changes:
    Faction Attributes:
        Miner He3 capacity and He3 yield have been standardized across the board at 1. Future economic adjustments to specific factions will focus on He3 speed and the cost modifier.

    Belters:
        General Attributes:
            He3 Yield reduced to 1 [1.25]
            Cost reduced to 1 [1.25]    
    
    Dregkhlar:
        General Attributes:
            He3 Yield reduced to 1 [1.25]
            Cost reduced to 1 [1.2]
            Base costs have been adjusted to compensate.
            Starting money will remain unchanged to provide Dreg with a stronger opening game.
    Technoflux:
        General Attributes:
            He3 Speed reduced to 1.2 [1.5]

you're welcome

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