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Question for you Vogue,

Why not go miner/con hunting with a scout and fighter? Things'd be killed faster, and a fighter could unequip shields/missiles, although I don't know offhand how stealthy that'd make the fighter... Maybe 80% sig? I'm kinda wondering now if you could sneak a fighter in there with a scout.

Second question is on miner AIs. As I recall, if you spook a miner it'd run straight for the closest base that it can dock with. Can you fly far enough ahead of it to drop mines in it's path and will the miner keep on flying straight through the mines? I know that spooking a miner and then dropping mines for it to fly through on the other side of an aleph used to be fairly common.

QUOTE If you're scouting at the very start of the game, then you're one of only three or four people on the whole team. There is nobody else available to defend.[/quote]

Has the game population really declined that low?

The thought of an early game miner/con hunter scout intrigues me, 'cause I could see that as being quite effective, especially if you can catch a miner returning with a load or an opening con.

A question then for those who comm.

Would you mind seeing a scout go off and do this? Or a couple, 2x scouts with DFs would be quite nasty vs miners/cons, and I think, think mind you, that scouts might be more stealthy than fighters, not sure though.

Katya wrote:QUOTE (Katya @ Mar 31 2012, 10:06 PM) Why not go miner/con hunting with a scout and fighter? Things'd be killed faster, and a fighter could unequip shields/missiles, although I don't know offhand how stealthy that'd make the fighter... Maybe 80% sig? I'm kinda wondering now if you could sneak a fighter in there with a scout.

Because that would be teamwork. We can't have any of that in Allegiance. It might break the game!

Usually the scout sneaks in low sig, and the fig(s) wait(s) on the other side of the aleph until the scout tells them to go at the right time.

QUOTE Second question is on miner AIs. As I recall, if you spook a miner it'd run straight for the closest base that it can dock with. Can you fly far enough ahead of it to drop mines in it's path and will the miner keep on flying straight through the mines? I know that spooking a miner and then dropping mines for it to fly through on the other side of an aleph used to be fairly common.[/quote]
It'll slow down. The prox will do some damage, but not a whole lot, and anyways it's pretty hard to prox it like that. What you want to do is prox it through an aleph (as you mentioned) -- or if you catch it mining at the rock, drop a prox right behind it before you open fire, that way when it turns to run, you'll get some additional damage with the prox. Also if it's lining up at the green door, that's a good time to drop a prox and then give it a little ram into the mines.

QUOTE The thought of an early game miner/con hunter scout intrigues me, 'cause I could see that as being quite effective, especially if you can catch a miner returning with a load or an opening con.

A question then for those who comm.

Would you mind seeing a scout go off and do this? Or a couple, 2x scouts with DFs would be quite nasty vs miners/cons, and I think, think mind you, that scouts might be more stealthy than fighters, not sure though.[/quote]
Oh hell yes. I wish everyone did this, frankly. It's the ABC's of Allegiance:

Always
Be
Chasing miners

(Just make sure your initial op con will plant safely first. Then it's open season!)

If you manage to pull off a kill, you will be declared an Allegiance God and comms will throw ticker-tape parades in your honor. And even if you don't make the kill, disrupting the enemy's mining is still better than nothing. Just whatever you do, as I mentioned before, find a way to do it that doesn't involve a long podride back home.

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Apr 1 2012, 01:50 AM) If you manage to pull off a kill, you will be declared an Allegiance God and comms will throw ticker-tape parades in your honor. And even if you don't make the kill, disrupting the enemy's mining is still better than nothing. Just whatever you do, as I mentioned before, find a way to do it that doesn't involve a long podride back home.

I killed a carrier solo in a scout once... does that make me awesome?

Sundance_ wrote:QUOTE (Sundance_ @ Apr 1 2012, 03:14 PM) I killed a carrier solo in a scout once... does that make me awesome?

If it was an enh belter carrier and you were in a giga basic scout, yes.

one more thing to add on the subject of killing miners

if you are your teams sole miner killer, go ahead do whatever you feel is right. if u just wanna bounce miners or kill them outright, up to you.

if there are other miner killers on your team, please check to see if they are en route to kill the miner you are about to spook. you may want to stay hidden and keep an eye on the miner and use teamwork to ensure a successful miner o run rather than the chancier rambo approach.

bonus: talk to your team about the location of the miner, give specific distances to alephs that your team will be coming from. talk about what defense if any the miner has. you can also talk about if the miner *just* started mining or is about to finish a rock and start moving. best yet, position yourself so that if the miner were try to escape, you are in position to prox it (open air or through aleph).

bonus2x: if there is d, you may attempt to lead them in a wild goose chase by flying close enuf to get eye and entice the miner d to come after you. as the d leaves and chases you, be sure to let your team (already camping on aleph) to gogogo.

Katya wrote:QUOTE (Katya @ Apr 1 2012, 01:06 AM) Question for you Vogue,

Why not go miner/con hunting with a scout and fighter? Things'd be killed faster, and a fighter could unequip shields/missiles, although I don't know offhand how stealthy that'd make the fighter... Maybe 80% sig? I'm kinda wondering now if you could sneak a fighter in there with a scout.

No, the reason I go with a scout is because you can easily sneak past the enemies con d with your speed and in a way "zerg their miners". Figs are slow, and have little fuel to keep up with a scout, useless at early miner o where you need to go far into enemy lines to find them.

Katya wrote:QUOTE (Katya @ Apr 1 2012, 01:06 AM) Second question is on miner AIs. As I recall, if you spook a miner it'd run straight for the closest base that it can dock with. Can you fly far enough ahead of it to drop mines in it's path and will the miner keep on flying straight through the mines? I know that spooking a miner and then dropping mines for it to fly through on the other side of an aleph used to be fairly common.

Yes, you plan your approach to the miner in a way where you'll be approaching from the aleph of it's garr or ref. Drop a prox before you start gatting it down and it'll run through the prox, in a very slooooooooow manner. This is the most effective way to scout solo a miner, however you don't always have time to do this if you got eyed going towards them.

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Apr 1 2012, 02:50 AM) Because that would be teamwork. We can't have any of that in Allegiance. It might break the game!

wrong for the reasons mentioned above, I am going to assume you thought we were talking about mid game instead of the beginning of the game and got confused

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Apr 1 2012, 02:50 AM) Usually the scout sneaks in low sig, and the fig(s) wait(s) on the other side of the aleph until the scout tells them to go at the right time.

yes this is how it should be done during the mid game when the enemy team is sitting on miner d

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Apr 1 2012, 02:50 AM) Oh hell yes. I wish everyone did this, frankly. It's the ABC's of Allegiance:

Always
Be
Chasing miners

(Just make sure your initial op con will plant safely first. Then it's open season!)

So true, the best pilots will always use the beginning for scout miner o, however it isn't as easy as it looks. Every bullet counts, and so does every missile. Miss a single one and it could be all for naught.

fwiffo wrote:QUOTE (fwiffo @ Apr 1 2012, 12:25 PM) one more thing to add on the subject of killing miners

if you are your teams sole miner killer, go ahead do whatever you feel is right. if u just wanna bounce miners or kill them outright, up to you.

if there are other miner killers on your team, please check to see if they are en route to kill the miner you are about to spook. you may want to stay hidden and keep an eye on the miner and use teamwork to ensure a successful miner o run rather than the chancier rambo approach.

This. I find that usually im the only one on my team who usually goes on miner o, but on the random chance I have someone like Fwiffo on my team I always watch what he's doing or vice versa and we usually end up co-ordinating our miner o escapades.

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Mar 30 2012, 12:00 AM) I do have a bone to pick though. Tech is not as valuable as you think. Assuming you could pick up 20k of tech (not very likely actually) -- how much of that can you actually use? Not all of it is going to match your techpath. More to the point, though -- losing your initial op con is a big frickin' deal. You can always pick up that tech later. You cannot get those mining sectors back. You can't get that map control back. Lose your initial op, and there's a good chance you won't live long enough to enjoy that Retro Boost or Seeker 2 or whatever it was you picked up.

I agree, most of the times as a scout i dont have time enough to collect more than 2 tech items, the comm asking very early to nan a con or miner, and then guess.... i die and lose the tech, but the miner lives... So, It may be good idea to bring the first tech found in the base right away.

QUOTE Also, it's much better to pack a gatt rather than a disruptor: disruptor doesn't use any ammo, sure, but it puts out something like half the damage of gatt.[/quote]

Really? I thought dis was good for miners and cons o..... probably wrong. Besides this, rarely a scout can kill a miner before the defence catch him.... wrong?

QUOTE One key skill is learning how to be a scout pilot rather than a pod pilot. It's not that hard to do most of the time: just don't get eyed. Or if you do get eyed, rip out before you get podded. Or if you get podded, ram a miner or prox or get picked up or bring a rescue probe. Make it a goal to never walk home in a pod again.[/quote]

I probably do things wrong because rarely can retreat in time after an enemy miner bothering.... And most of the times, when I podded, the rock ramming does not kill me or doesn't kill me in time much less than the podride back home. I must work on this ...eheh

corelsx wrote:QUOTE (corelsx @ Apr 4 2012, 05:24 AM) I agree, most of the times as a scout i dont have time enough to collect more than 2 tech items, the comm asking very early to nan a con or miner, and then guess.... i die and lose the tech, but the miner lives... So, It may be good idea to bring the first tech found in the base right away.

I admit that if we're going exp and I pick up mini2, I wince if I then get podded later on. Mini2 costs $5k. But losing a miner ... that's $4k replacement cost right there, in addition to up to $7.2k of He3 it might be carrying (standard miner with standard capacity -- values may differ from faction to faction). But the big impact is that your team's economy is effectively stalled for at least five minutes while you build a replacement and get it out to a productive mining sector. In the beginning of the game, you simply can't afford to do that. You'll get outteched and then slaughtered in a hurry.

QUOTE Really? I thought dis was good for miners and cons o..... probably wrong. Besides this, rarely a scout can kill a miner before the defence catch him.... wrong?[/quote]

Scouts can kill miners. It takes a fair amount of apathy on the other team's part to not defend it, and/or a bit of luck on your part to find it so far from safety. But yes, vets routinely solo miners in scouts -- especially so in small games. And they do it with gatt, not dis.

QUOTE I probably do things wrong because rarely can retreat in time after an enemy miner bothering.... And most of the times, when I podded, the rock ramming does not kill me or doesn't kill me in time much less than the podride back home. I must work on this ...eheh[/quote]

So, ramming rocks won't kill your pod, and neither will ramming enemy bases. Only ramming enemy ships, prox, missles or gunfire will work. Another alternative is to head directly up or down towards sector boundary. As you may know, if you get too far off plane, you'll slowly suffer damage until you get killed -- even if you're in a pod. You're never more than 90s from the edge of the sector ... so if you're ever out of action for more than two minutes, you're doing it wrong.