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I am about to show my intolerance for whiners and moaners in this world, not discrimination due to sex or disposition just to be clear.

"do you have a penis or a vagina" - would the subject have preferred to be stripped to find out?

Being put with males - duh....still has penis, why would you risk women getting sexually harassed? Transgender doesn't mean you ain't a rapist or wacko.

The article keeps using the word 'she' - a person in transition is not at the station until the get off at the platform....in this instance this person is a he.

The article implies the person is squeaky clean. In the case of a minority group like transgender, if you beat your breast loud enough about equality, the opposite if likely to be dealt. Is it right, no. Does it happen, yes.

I'm sorry, but although the police behaved inappropriately, I don't think it is all one way or at least overplayed for maximum political impact.

Vortrog wrote:QUOTE (Vortrog @ Feb 3 2012, 03:03 AM) I am about to show my intolerance for whiners and moaners in this world, not discrimination due to sex or disposition just to be clear.

"do you have a penis or a vagina" - would the subject have preferred to be stripped to find out?

Being put with males - duh....still has penis, why would you risk women getting sexually harassed? Transgender doesn't mean you ain't a rapist or wacko.

The article keeps using the word 'she' - a person in transition is not at the station until the get off at the platform....in this instance this person is a he.

The article implies the person is squeaky clean. In the case of a minority group like transgender, if you beat your breast loud enough about equality, the opposite if likely to be dealt. Is it right, no. Does it happen, yes.

I'm sorry, but although the police behaved inappropriately, I don't think it is all one way or at least overplayed for maximum political impact.

What the $#@!ing hell?

"do you have a penis or a vagina"
The correct response is "none of your $#@!ing business, give me your badge number so I can report you, I am clearly presenting as a woman so that is how you should treat me, why are we having this conversation"

"Being put with males - duh....still has penis, why would you risk women getting sexually harassed?"
What the $#@! is wrong with you? She is a woman. It does not $#@!ing matter, nor is it any of anyone's business what she biologically has in her pants. She is a woman who is clearly presenting as a woman, so you put her with the women. Problem solved.

"The article keeps using the word 'she' - a person in transition is not at the station until the get off at the platform"
No, you are just a moron. Not every transgendered person necessarily wants surgery. Not all those who do want surgery can get it right away. Transitioning is incredibly $#@!ing hard, and it's insane to call someone "he" when she's a woman, living as a woman, presenting as a woman, and asking to be referred to as a woman, just because she didn't have surgery.

"I am about to show my intolerance for whiners and moaners in this world, not discrimination due to sex or disposition just to be clear."
You may think that's what you are doing, but discrimination due to sex is exactly what you are showing.

To be fair, I'm sure you don't mean to. You are just an idiot.

Why I thought for a moment that it was a sane idea to post this article on this forum I have no clue. Or anywhere on the internet really, I suppose.

To be fair, it is entirely my fault that I clicked that "view this post" link under Vortog's name. I can't remember why I blocked him in the first place, but judging from the above I probably had a very good reason.

Seriously, I can understand "innocent until proven guilty," I can understand disagreements about political implications or whatever, but what Vortog writes above is just offensive and moronic. And also Bacon, sorry, I guess you gain those 100 respect points right back just through contrast with Vortog (again, not actually claiming anyone on this forum would care whether I respect them or not, just expressing my feelings on the matter here).

I'm sure I'll regret going off like this later but, uh. I actually think maybe it's kind of justified in this case.

Edit: Oops, I've been misspelling his callsign as "vortog" when it's actually "vorTROG". That seems very appropriate, though I'm sure it was meant to just be funny.

Girly, you're just making a ton of assumptions based on one side of the story.

I'm not saying this person is in the wrong. I'm just saying we have absolutely no idea what the accused party has to say for themselves. There are liars and cheats out there and I guarantee some of them happen to be transgendered (read that sentence carefully before you put words in my mouth and make yourself look like a moron). We know NOTHING about this person. You're just assuming that they are an innocent, well-meaning individual and you have literally no evidence to back up that claim other than what they are saying about themselves.

That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less. If you wanna read into this and assume I'm a biggoted @#$%@#, go ahead, I don't give a @#(!. I'm just sick and tired of everybody making snap judgements based on a couple of flashy headlines and one person's sob story. This country is going to @#(! and it's because nobody listens to anybody anymore. We've all made up our minds about everything and are experts on everything 2 seconds after somebody opens their mouth and cries foul loud enough for a ratings-obsessed "news" reporter to snatch it up.

Bacon wrote:QUOTE (Bacon @ Feb 3 2012, 03:22 AM) Girly, you're just making a ton of assumptions based on one side of the story.

I'm not saying this person is in the wrong. I'm just saying we have absolutely no idea what the accused party has to say for themselves. There are liars and cheats out there and I guarantee some of them happen to be transgendered. We know NOTHING about this person. You're just assuming that they are an innocent, well-meaning individual and you have literally no evidence to back up that claim other than what they are saying about themselves.

That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less. If you wanna read into this and assume I'm a biggoted @#$%@#, go ahead, I don't give a @#(!. I'm just sick and tired of everybody making snap judgements based on a couple of flashy headlines and one person's sob story. This country is going to @#(! and it's because nobody listens to anybody anymore. We've all made up our minds about everything and are experts on everything 2 seconds after somebody opens their mouth and cries foul loud enough for a ratings-obsessed "news" reporter to snatch it up.

Fine, sorry, for what it's worth I do not think you are bigoted, I do believe you are sincerely trying to be fair. I just don't like victim blaming, and looking at the facts it seems incredibly unlikely to me that what you say is a likely alternative.

Also, again, there is no sane justification for chaining this person up for 28 hours, and if the police were willing to do that, I somehow doubt they didn't throw some verbal abuse in with it.

If it turns out I'm wrong and the police officers were innocent I'll be happy to be all contrite about it, but I just think that given the story, it's insanely unlikely.

If a issue is close to your heart you will never be able to make a balanced assessment.
We all forget this at times.

Hopefully in time girlyboy you might not see my post as moronic but just an assessment of an article posted on the internet. That is of course if you decide to show my posts and read them with a more objective view instead of seeing it as an attack on transgendered people. Heck, let's substitute any person, black, disabled, gay...wouldn't matter. Someone would get pissed off.

She was chained up for 28 hours according to her.

I'm not victim bashing. We just don't know if she IS a victim to the degree she's claiming she is. I just effing HATE people bashing the cops when they have absolutely ZERO idea what they have to say about the situation. Having worked in law enforcement and been raised by a city cop, I can say with extreme confidence that what hits the news stories is rarely, RARELY what actually took place, and the cops are rarely, RARELY as evil as the reporters and lawyers like to make them out to be.

Vortrog wrote:QUOTE (Vortrog @ Feb 3 2012, 03:29 AM) If a issue is close to your heart you will never be able to make a balanced assessment.
We all forget this at times.

Hopefully in time girlyboy you might not see my post as moronic but just an assessment of an article posted on the internet. That is of course if you decide to show my posts and read them with a more objective view instead of seeing it as an attack on transgendered people. Heck, let's substitute any person, black, disabled, gay...wouldn't matter. Someone would get pissed off.

You're responding in a resonable-sounding way so I don't want to yell any-more, but I have no idea how to take your comments as a balanced or objective assessment. You claimed that 1) people have a right to demand to know whether a transgendered person has a penis or a vagina, just like that. 2) You claimed that a transgendered woman isn't really a woman until she had surgery. 3) You claimed that people who complain about this sort of treatement are just whiners.

You are insanely wrong on all counts and it's your job to get informed about it; you can choose not to, but then I have a right to call you on it. I suppose if I were a better person I'd have replied in some nice and polite way gently explaining why you are mistaken without yelling and the like, but yeah, I guess I tend to get frustrated around gender issues, and yours was probably the most infuriating comment about gender I remember reading on this forum, if only because I'm fairly sure it was 100% serious, whereas most of the stuff I'd consider offensive here I at least know is just meant as jokes and humour.

One thing you're right about is that posting about this here really was asking for a flame war sooner or later I suppose, but I guess when I was reading the article I was like "holy eff, I have to write something about this somewhere" and didn't really think through the fact that hey, this is the internet.

Edit: Not directly related to the above, but the full claims for the Breslauer case are apparently here.

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Feb 3 2012, 03:07 AM) What the $#@!ing hell?

"do you have a penis or a vagina"
The correct response is "none of your $#@!ing business, give me your badge number so I can report you, I am clearly presenting as a woman so that is how you should treat me, why are we having this conversation"

"Being put with males - duh....still has penis, why would you risk women getting sexually harassed?"
What the $#@! is wrong with you? She is a woman. It does not $#@!ing matter, nor is it any of anyone's business what she biologically has in her pants. She is a woman who is clearly presenting as a woman, so you put her with the women. Problem solved.

so say there's this crazy rapist dude who decided to dress as a girl this one particular day and got arrested. he clearly presents himself as a woman so they lock him up with all the bad girls.
rapist dude: objective complete.

Terran wrote:QUOTE (Terran @ Feb 3 2012, 08:57 AM) so say there's this crazy rapist dude who decided to dress as a girl this one particular day and got arrested. he clearly presents himself as a woman so they lock him up with all the bad girls.
rapist dude: objective complete.

Nah. You wouldn't lock up someone with a history of attacking a certain section of society with other members of that section, that goes against all common sense for the police.

Just like you wouldn't lock up a violent offender being jailed for beating up a black man, with another black man it just creates headaches for your custody team and breaches your responsibility to keep people safe.

I think your creating a straw man there to be honest.