Alternate History Project
The problem is that there has never not been untruth as long as humans have been human. You'll never find the oldest point in human history where people began to believe fiction over truth because as long as people have been human they've accepted such things as reality. You'll never find the oldest instance of bigotry for the same reasons. These things occurred BEFORE history began being recorded.
Get over yourselves, don't try to win arguments on the internet where the option of a punch in the mouth is unavailable
"It is not that I cannot create anything good, but that I will not." And to prove this, he created the peacock.
I'd settle for oldest recorded. Or even Oldest We Can Come Up With. That'd be awesome.
Never give up.
Even when all seems hopeless, don't give up.
If you keep fighting, losing is only a possibility.
If you give up, losing is a guarantee.
Never give up. -Beez
Even when all seems hopeless, don't give up.
If you keep fighting, losing is only a possibility.
If you give up, losing is a guarantee.
Never give up. -Beez
HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 18 2009, 03:15 PM) I was deadly serious about Buyo and him almost being thawrted by a probe wall, had there been better probe spammage on that green door that exp would have not gotten capped.
Ah, and yet, I live in Kentucky. Stupid it may be, it's a purely American idea. What's that say about us?
Never give up.
Even when all seems hopeless, don't give up.
If you keep fighting, losing is only a possibility.
If you give up, losing is a guarantee.
Never give up. -Beez
Even when all seems hopeless, don't give up.
If you keep fighting, losing is only a possibility.
If you give up, losing is a guarantee.
Never give up. -Beez
HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 18 2009, 03:15 PM) I was deadly serious about Buyo and him almost being thawrted by a probe wall, had there been better probe spammage on that green door that exp would have not gotten capped.
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TurkeyXIII
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:18 am
- Location: Melbourne, Aus
You want to start by reading Herotodus, who effectively invented the concept of what we now call history. Then move on to Thucydides who's a far better historian if rather drier. Of course there are recorded events before this pair but analytic history starts with them.
Herodotus may well be your best bet because he tends to record events multiple times from different views. Not exactly what you're after but interesting.
After that a wider study of Greek culture, Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Sophocles are the ground work you'll need to put in but I'm sure that you'll discover that you need to absorb a lot of other writers as well.
Once you're expert on Greece you'll want to extend back to Babylon and Persia, the ancient hebrew texts and of course Egypt. I imagine that you've got a good lifetime of work to do to be able to meaningfully start asking the question let alone come up with an answer.
ps. yes, the above is rather tongue in cheek but your question is rather nebulous and difficult to pin down. Seriosuly though, read Herodotus and Thucydides I think you'll enjoy them.
Herodotus may well be your best bet because he tends to record events multiple times from different views. Not exactly what you're after but interesting.
After that a wider study of Greek culture, Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Sophocles are the ground work you'll need to put in but I'm sure that you'll discover that you need to absorb a lot of other writers as well.
Once you're expert on Greece you'll want to extend back to Babylon and Persia, the ancient hebrew texts and of course Egypt. I imagine that you've got a good lifetime of work to do to be able to meaningfully start asking the question let alone come up with an answer.
ps. yes, the above is rather tongue in cheek but your question is rather nebulous and difficult to pin down. Seriosuly though, read Herodotus and Thucydides I think you'll enjoy them.
Spidey: Can't think of a reason I'd need to know anything
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Kopperhead
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:00 am
- Location: Windmill country, Spain
- Contact:
I agree with Raveen, it's a fairly good starting point for a westerner, if you want to have something on which to hold on think in the switch from bronze to iron for example, prior to the 1st millenium BCE you will find very few written sources...
Although Herodotus gave us the term and started the trend, take it more as a journalist, in fact all are tales recounted to him on his wanderings around the Classical Greek world and it is pretty interesting and easy read usually.
Try project Gutenberg, gutenberg.org, for any source you may need and the complete Herodotus Histories, there you will find too Thucydides or Xenophon, with just those three you are set for the trip and years loooooooooooooooooong read and understanding.
GL
Although Herodotus gave us the term and started the trend, take it more as a journalist, in fact all are tales recounted to him on his wanderings around the Classical Greek world and it is pretty interesting and easy read usually.
Try project Gutenberg, gutenberg.org, for any source you may need and the complete Herodotus Histories, there you will find too Thucydides or Xenophon, with just those three you are set for the trip and years loooooooooooooooooong read and understanding.
GL
NO PAD, NO HELMET, JUST BRAIN AND BALLS!
Interesting. How is this a European idea? As a European who has studied anthropology/history, I find it rather American.TurkeyXIII wrote:QUOTE (TurkeyXIII @ Nov 16 2011, 02:25 AM) I agree with Das, this sounds like a rather European idea. Bad luck Beez, popular opinion contradicts you, so you must be incorrect.
You know, the whole "truth" thing and the underlying "I am gonna set this right" flavour that goes with it ...
Not to discredit the Northamerican scientific achievements but since we are already talking clichees here,
Europeans tend to be much more on the relative side of things ...
Beez, perhaps you misunderstand what these people are trying to tell you.
I understand you are looking for a factual date where "truth" was first obscured by "bigotry",
but you should understand that there really is no such thing, there is only happenings and
people who talk/write about it.
The concept of truth is already just that: A concept (of pretty recent origin).
Writing history IS writing truth and at the same time all it is, is really just telling a tale for
others to believe. It's been like this in ancient Greece and Asia and it has stayed like this
until today.
"History is written by the winners" like Churchill said. Contemporary historical science doesn't
really try to find some dubious truth behind things but rather to dig out the tales of the losers,
that just didn't make it all that far, in fact, often remained in the domain of oral history ...
Last edited by GoodWill on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.