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girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Aug 27 2010, 09:30 PM) Why do we need an incredibly well-defined structure where one person or group is 100% certainly in charge of absolutely everything? Why can't we just live with a system where some people are in charge of some things, others are in charge of other things, and they share details and work together to create a whole? After all, the game is run by a community, it doesn't have a single person who built everything, makes everything happen, and who it would make sense to put in charge of everything.

BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHO TO TAKE ISSUES TO

Have you been reading the dramathreads? When something gets taken to Bard he says "ask TE" and when it's escalated to TE he says "whoa whoa I'm not in charge, go ask the ZLs".

Sounds like more communication might be needed on some specific issue between the zone leads and TE? I dunno, I don't think the people starting the daramathreads were communicating what exactly they wanted very clearly anyway, which was also probably part of the problem. From the snippets of behind-the-scenes discussion that have been posted it seems like things behind the scenes could be improved, but it also seems the people lodging the complaints have a very hard time clearly communicating what they actually want and need without degenerating into all-caps profanity. I'm guessing if the second problem could be solved, the first might become less of an issue.

I don't think a rigid and overly complex power structure makes sense in a community this small, anyway. "A bunch of zone leads in charge of whatever their particular zone does who cooperate to make it all work together" doesn't seem all that bad, to me.

You have an issue, go ask the person who is in charge of the area in which your issue arose. If you feel you're getting the run-around, here's a thought, find a way of dealing with this that doesn't involve "dramathreads".

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Aug 27 2010, 08:30 PM) Why does everyone need to have a word on how good or bad the setup TE uses to run much of this is? It's his hardware, isn't it?

This is the kind of attitude that needs to change. Remove the ownership from the individual, replace with ownership by the community.

Then we can start charging a monthly fee for allegiance costs and everyone can be equal shareholders with equal say and take bets on how long it takes for this game to be destroyed forever

Who said anything about monthly membership fees? Not me. If you read my other posts you would know that I am simply suggesting a handful of people share the cost, not the entire community.

Orion wrote:QUOTE (Orion @ Aug 27 2010, 10:07 PM) This is the kind of attitude that needs to change. Remove the ownership from the individual, replace with ownership by the community.

TE has repeatedly said if he's asked to stand aside, he will.

Step 1): Orion and whoever else organize and actually carry out a plan to find reliable, trustworthy volunteers willing to pay for, maintain, and generally keep a constant eye on everything that keeps this place running.

Step 2): Having organized, collected the necessary funds, and invested in the necessary hardware -- or at least, presenting concrete proof that they're in a very good position to do so -- this group contacts TE in private.

Step 3): TE and this group discuss whatever, first behind the scenes, then in front of the community to generally get a sense of what would be better for the game as a whole. If there is popular support for this group of volunteers, and the community as a whole shows they generally want these people in charge for some reason, then TE, as he said, will presumably hand control over to them.

Step 4): What Orion just said happens.

If you feel this is a better thing, then why not work towards it? Perhaps you are, of course, and just aren't ready to discuss it yet -- I don't know. But right now, it sounds to me like you're just saying that this should happen and that should happen, when really, if you want these things to happen, you're kind of going to have to get a bunch of like-minded individuals and do them yourself. After all, you're the one who wants them to happen, right? And community members organizing and doing things for themselves is pretty much how projects like this work, right? I don't see what simply repeating these complaints over and over again on the forum will achieve.

By the way I want to clarify that I Imago. I just feel I should say this since I sound like I'm taking sides, and it seems a lot of the drama in the recent past was him-centred, and he is generally awesome, even if sometimes angry.

It is my understanding that that is normal for computer people.

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Aug 27 2010, 10:14 PM) TE has repeatedly said if he's asked to stand aside, he will.

Asked...by who?

Orion wrote:QUOTE (Orion @ Aug 27 2010, 07:12 PM) If you read my other posts you would know that I am simply suggesting a handful of people share the cost, not the entire community.

Orion wrote:QUOTE (Orion @ Aug 27 2010, 07:07 PM) replace with ownership by the community.

OOO, busting out the caramel corn for this one!