I think it would also help in core balancing. Set up a total AI vs. AI game in a new core. Presumably, the outcomes should hopefully be random, right? (I'm no programmer, correct me if I'm wrong). So if one side consistently wins, then it's unbalanced. Basically automate core testing. Who knows, maybe it would spawn all sorts of fun new cores ideas since people could test them on their own. Also, even though it happens rarely, it would help to balance new factions too. I dunno, just throwing that out there. It would be nice to take it a step further and make it so you could learn to comm by telling all AI what to do against AI. Maybe just locally w/o ASGS.
And btw, I haven't played for like 4 months now. I'm really missing it and you guys. This switch to Linux killed it. I'm working on playing more soon though. For now I'll just lurk moar.
Allegiance Player AI
omfg thats perfect! can we code in some stack and maybe a frag hider or two?BlackViper wrote:QUOTE (BlackViper @ Aug 20 2010, 08:22 PM) Who said players would fly for the AI commanders? I think you need to take it a step further. Make the AI commanders AND pilots. Allow the lobby to view the game in progress. This way they can still NOAT camp and bitch about the game in progress.
improving the AI would be a useful step towards better training missions or maybe even a single player 'mini' campaign. Humans v Humans will always be the main draw, but I think this couid be used to help lessen the learning curve and encourage more people to try the game.
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Ignoring the trolololing I think that better pilot AI is an excellent thing. Commander AI on the other hand is something I hope to never see. The interaction between commanders on different teams and between commander/team is so central to the game that if it was reduced to a series of if/thens I think I might leave if either team had one.
Besides the biggest problem with AI is that you have a commander that does the same thing all the time. The biggest issue for any single player RTS experience is that it's skirmish can be reduced to showing the ai a series of stimuli to force it into a certain direction and then simply counteracting that. How in the world do you force the ai to do something non traditional at random intervals? Does the AI randomly go "herr derr it won't be optimal but guess what, mustangs!" or does it perhaps push the op into the enemy home wish the sole intention of providing a whore base?
In the end I think the commander AI would be a nice side project for someone interested in AI and whatnot, but given the choice between having a dev work on that and having a dev work on solving Trac tickets I'd straight up choose the tickets. Of course you're your own person and can do what you want, but know that I think your efforts are futile and wasteful
As for pilot AI, adding options for additional training missions and perhaps some Phoenix style AI drones (heck allowing us to setup scenarios like capship escorts for multiplayer ala Freespace is one of my dreams) would work out great.
Anyways tl;dr: No on comm AI, yes on expanded pilot AI
Besides the biggest problem with AI is that you have a commander that does the same thing all the time. The biggest issue for any single player RTS experience is that it's skirmish can be reduced to showing the ai a series of stimuli to force it into a certain direction and then simply counteracting that. How in the world do you force the ai to do something non traditional at random intervals? Does the AI randomly go "herr derr it won't be optimal but guess what, mustangs!" or does it perhaps push the op into the enemy home wish the sole intention of providing a whore base?
In the end I think the commander AI would be a nice side project for someone interested in AI and whatnot, but given the choice between having a dev work on that and having a dev work on solving Trac tickets I'd straight up choose the tickets. Of course you're your own person and can do what you want, but know that I think your efforts are futile and wasteful
As for pilot AI, adding options for additional training missions and perhaps some Phoenix style AI drones (heck allowing us to setup scenarios like capship escorts for multiplayer ala Freespace is one of my dreams) would work out great.
Anyways tl;dr: No on comm AI, yes on expanded pilot AI
Get over yourselves, don't try to win arguments on the internet where the option of a punch in the mouth is unavailable
"It is not that I cannot create anything good, but that I will not." And to prove this, he created the peacock.
Hint:
QUOTE (Sourcecode readme)Version 1.2 Release (02/26/2004)
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The release is a refresh that adds additional files in the \test folder. "Pigs" were the bots the Allegiance team used for testing Allegiance. These are mostly sample scripts which will be helpful in both testing and developing intelligent drones.”[/quote]
QUOTE (Sourcecode readme)Version 1.2 Release (02/26/2004)
--------------------------------
The release is a refresh that adds additional files in the \test folder. "Pigs" were the bots the Allegiance team used for testing Allegiance. These are mostly sample scripts which will be helpful in both testing and developing intelligent drones.”[/quote]
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
No. Sorry. That's an awful idea.uberkill wrote:QUOTE (uberkill @ Aug 21 2010, 04:36 AM) I think it would also help in core balancing. Set up a total AI vs. AI game in a new core. Presumably, the outcomes should hopefully be random, right? (I'm no programmer, correct me if I'm wrong). So if one side consistently wins, then it's unbalanced. Basically automate core testing. Who knows
Your assuming a couple of things.
AI commanders use similar tactics to human commanders.AI tactics are equally matched with different technologies.An AI piloted ship performs similarly to a Piloted ship (we know it doesn't cores have things set in them to make things easier for pilots in ways an AI wouldn't need)The settings are equally balanced for both factions you are testing.
On the other hand, a better drone AI for more training missions would be good if we could do it.
Last edited by notjarvis on Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
My dissertation was on building a poker playing bot, it worked, got raped in the long run by the pro bots but could still draw even and win in random small stakes poker games, anyway the main point is that for poker playing bots they never do the same thing all the time, it's always about different strategies, never a hard and fast rule, I honestly think the commanders in Allegiance tend to do the same thing which is why AI comms would work brilliantly against them because AI comms can do opponent modelling where it can take an educated guess on what the opponent will do and it can model that on any number of commanders.DasSmiter wrote:QUOTE (DasSmiter @ Aug 21 2010, 05:30 AM) Besides the biggest problem with AI is that you have a commander that does the same thing all the time. The biggest issue for any single player RTS experience is that it's skirmish can be reduced to showing the ai a series of stimuli to force it into a certain direction and then simply counteracting that. How in the world do you force the ai to do something non traditional at random intervals? Does the AI randomly go "herr derr it won't be optimal but guess what, mustangs!" or does it perhaps push the op into the enemy home wish the sole intention of providing a whore base?
It's a lot more complicated then just a few if/thens.
I see the main obstacles being getting an interface up for the AI bot to command and mining the data to feedback to the bot but if both those can be done then anyone would be able to make an AI commander bot which can be quite competitive, would probably get a lot of bot enthusiasts interested in Allegiance.
