Why DN is the sole responsability of a unique person ?

[KGJV]

QUOTE (Raveen @ Jul 2 2007, 12:32 PM) I agree with that all Kage, but Noir doesn't and has threatened legal action in the past over perceived infringements of his IP.

Wow, it's worst than I thought then. Did he really threatened legal action ? or is this just another alleg rumor ?

QUOTE (Grimmwolf_GB)Actually, he might have threatened to use legal action but his rights are quite limited. By publishing his stuff for Allegiance he more or less gave up his rights. Yes, he bought models for Nix and the legal disclaimer of the model maker prohibits using the models in an open source environment, but that is not our "problem", it is Noir's. All the other core makers however respect his wishes and do not use stuff from his core.

KaGe, sure, you would have all rights to base another core on the current DN 4.60, but I would beg you not to. While I don't like every aspect of DN (I recreated GoDII because DN was pissing me off), I appreciate Noir's work and time and would not want to drive him away over this.[/quote]

Well I'm sorry but game quality is not as good as it was and current DN plays a big part in this.

And I'm sorry again but IF all this legal action story is true, we should all boycott DN from now on and perma ban Noir from ASGS and this site.

Then we can copy DN 4.60, rename it to "FAZ Core 1.0" and select a "core team" to maintain it. Noir can me send his lawyers, I got better ones (and MSR too).

[apochboi]

Which reminds me, i need to ask Vegeta if i can use the newer dreg models on Warpcore. I hate the old ones. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

[Gappy]

Took a bit of digging, but my old post on U.S. Copyright Law as it (likely) applies to DN can be found here.

[Raveen]

QUOTE (KGJV @ Jul 2 2007, 12:59 PM) Wow, it's worst than I thought then. Did he really threatened legal action ? or is this just another alleg rumor ?

I believe it was a discussion about the FAO/MS rights situation. Someone (remembering how possesive of his core Noir is) said that all cores, as derivative works belong to FAO and ultimately MS under the source release terms. Noir was sure that this wasn't the case and I think he mentioned that he'd be willing to test it in court. This is all from memory but yes, Noir has stated that he'd be happy to get lawyers involved if his IP was compromised.

QUOTE (KGJV @ Jul 2 2007, 12:59 PM) Well I'm sorry but game quality is not as good as it was and current DN plays a big part in this.

And I'm sorry again but IF all this legal action story is true, we should all boycott DN from now on and perma ban Noir from ASGS and this site.

Then we can copy DN 4.60, rename it to "FAZ Core 1.0" and select a "core team" to maintain it. Noir can me send his lawyers, I got better ones (and MSR too).

If DN makes for bad gameplay why use it as a base for FAZ Core? Why not use Pookcore, add in the new factions and techs and work from there. You'd presumably lose phoenix but I don't see that as any great loss and they'd probably have to go from DN 4.6 regardless.

[KGJV]

QUOTE (Raveen @ Jul 2 2007, 02:19 PM) If DN makes for bad gameplay why use it as a base for FAZ Core? Why not use Pookcore, add in the new factions and techs and work from there. You'd presumably lose phoenix but I don't see that as any great loss and they'd probably have to go from DN 4.6 regardless.

Mainly because people are used to play on it. But it could be Pookcore or RPS or GoD or WarpCore or whatever as long as it's a community decision and main balance issues are solved quickly.

The "Cores war" has hurt a lot this game in the past, notably the A+ / DN war.

Alleg has a steep learning curve, add to this the way newbies are treated than add to this the confusion generated by having many cores and you'll understand why the player base remains low. Even vets are sometimes confused.

On top of that, there are numerous balance issues that affect gameplay quality and draw off many vets. Not to mentions 'stats and ranking' affected by different cores with different balance. This is absurd.

We really need 'one core to rule them all', a community core. This is the 1st step to keep players and draw new ones. I'm not against "prototype cores" to test new ideas, concepts and factions and then merge them or not in the community core.
Eventually 'mod cores' like SW have also their place because they're written from scratch and based on a different theme. But they should remain 'aside', not affecting stats and ranking or have they're own systems.

The DN/PC/GoD/A+/RPS madness must stop. They're all built on the same foundation and exist only because, at some point, some individuals couldnt work together...

Imagine if we had done this with the code... we would have 5 versions of Allegiance.exe and server , what a nightmare for everyone.

[madpeople]

well, we cant take DN off noir, and it would be good to respect his wishes for DN unique tech to remain DN only.

feel free to set up a community core with multiple people contributing, but it couldn't be declared official until it was proven to be popular.

we cant really go un-appreciating all of noir's work and demanding he hand it over and banning him.

[BlackViper]

"I believe it was a discussion about the FAO/MS rights situation. Someone (remembering how possesive of his core Noir is) said that all cores, as derivative works belong to FAO and ultimately MS under the source release terms. Noir was sure that this wasn't the case and I think he mentioned that he'd be willing to test it in court. This is all from memory but yes, Noir has stated that he'd be happy to get lawyers involved if his IP was compromised."

Pretty accurate. With only one clairification. I personally contacted the source of the Nix ship models. I have a copy filed of his response to two questions.

1. One gave me the right to display his models on the Academy for education purposes.
2. One stating that his ONLY concern was use of his models in a new or fresh program (core) that would be sold for profit. otherwise he had no issues.

With that said, I have to agree Noir has done a lot of hard work on this core. Speaking only as BV, not an admin, etc. I do understand his feelings of protection of his work. I can not see us "taking over" his core as a community. I would hope if Noir's activity ever drops to the level of him no longer having an interest he would turn it over to the community.

BUT, I would love to see a community core. The issue becomes as stated above with a committee approach. I could see 2 or 3 people responsible for it. Using the same premise as now, with all changes discussed in the forums.

I had always hoped GoD would become that core. I know with the influx of newer players (and the damn curse of the newbie server) they all wish to mod this game to be like other games. I for one would like us to keep the concept of what original allegiance was about. (yeah, another whole issue of what that definition is about). There had to be a balance of new tech/factions to keep the game interesting. BUT we can not overboard it either. I mean really, how many people here can truly see they know all of the tech lines, requirements, etc to command? Now throw in different cores?

'nuff said for now.

[Grimmwolf_GB]

QUOTE (BlackViper @ Jul 2 2007, 06:41 PM) I had always hoped GoD would become that core. I know with the influx of newer players (and the damn curse of the newbie server) they all wish to mod this game to be like other games. I for one would like us to keep the concept of what original allegiance was about. (yeah, another whole issue of what that definition is about). There had to be a balance of new tech/factions to keep the game interesting. BUT we can not overboard it either. I mean really, how many people here can truly see they know all of the tech lines, requirements, etc to command? Now throw in different cores?

I have absolutely no problem with giving over "control" of GoD core as I only maintain it. I only fixed some bugs, reused A+ icons and messed a bit with Dreg balance. I was just desperate enough at that time when the DN carriers and giga patties dominated the gameplay for months without a nerf. It is up to the players though and at the moment they seem to prefer the additional factions no matter what.

[Vlymoxyd]

A community core would be interesting. There was minority of players who wouldn't play anything but DN and would whine on noat until everyone switched to DN. Now, everyone only play DN and other cores got a bad reputation.

- RPS gets played by newbies on Crazy money settings
- A+ just became weird in it's goal to balance the game imo.
- GoD is almost never played. I personally only know it's based on an early A+...
- PC2 just end up into a heavy scout rush and gets old pretty fast.
- EoR... Imo, people thinks the gameplay is too close to standard allegiance to feel like they're playing something different while they are still being forced to relearn everything

Then, you got DN. There are many problems which are not getting fixed, but everyone knows it well and most voobs actually use it as the standard.

One of the main advantage of a community core, Imo, would be to be able to develop the code along with new ideas and balance. Imagine if the community core had a great idea that can't be done currenlty with ICE, they could just ask the devs to do something for them.

Finally, as others pointed out, I think it's wrong to blame noir for what he did. If a community core idea made it and became popular, it would become the main core.

We just need people to step up and do it, untill then, DN is what we'll have to play.

[factoid]

I'm not sure how you could decide on a common core without restarting the 'core wars'. There is a awful lot of rampant fanboyism regarding cores, so what happens when you take something like DN and make it 'standard' and 'community driven'? There will be people who will want to tweak some things away from current DN stuff. And we might have to remove some DN stuff all together.

So what happens when there's a community driven core that upsets the DN fanboys?

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is, I think that DN is DN largely because of Noir, and anything that becomes a community asset will shortly become 'not DN', and that will likely trigger an outbreak of asshaterry.

But I would love to see some sort of community driven core, for what that's worth.