Err Ozzy ... if Enforcebalance is on you will not be able to join a team that is already much stronger. The button will not magically send you to a random team, the button does not force you to play for anybody. Say again:
If it is activated you just CANNOT join a team which is ALREADY CLEARLY STRONGER (=stacked).
I think that this is absolutely no problem at all since it does not force anything. Worst case is that the enforcer won't let ya join Night/Virus team cuz its already stacked! Assuming you don't like the opposing com, for example Saddam (stupid example i know) ... you will have to wait one game! That 's the worst case scenario!
Not the Problem. The solution.
lecef says it right, and I'll repeat it because it seems this MISCONCEPTION is still prevailing.
The proposed balance patch DOES NOT FORCE YOU TO PLAY FOR A CERTAIN COMMANDER.
You are NOT forced against your will to play for a specific commander. There is no forcing!!!
--TE
The proposed balance patch DOES NOT FORCE YOU TO PLAY FOR A CERTAIN COMMANDER.
You are NOT forced against your will to play for a specific commander. There is no forcing!!!
--TE
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It's not a misconception, you're just misunderstanding what Ozzy is saying.
Here it is, translated from stack-whore to english:
"If Weedman, Aarmstrong, or MadAccountant are commanding Team 1 and JoeStupidN00b is commanding Team 2 - I want to play on Team 1 not Team 2. If Team 1 is already higher in skill than Team 2 the only team it will let me join will be 2, forcing me to play for JoeStupidN00b or sit out."
The thing is, while you may have to wait to join Team 1, you'd have to wait anyway under the current system. It's just that instead of fighting the other stackers with twitchy fingers on the join button, you have to fight the balancing system.
I'll go so far as to say you'll have to wait LESS time, since the system will prevent the "Team 1 all vets Team 2 all newbies" symptom that ends up with everyone just waiting for the next game. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: The system is going to have to balance in both directions. This means that not only does it have to make sure that a player joining isn't going to make that team's skill level too HIGH, it also has to make sure it won't make that team's skill level too LOW. It has to do this to prevent newbie stacking... if it doesn't and a bunch of newbies all join one team, then the other team is effectively closed since nobody will be able to join it.
Here it is, translated from stack-whore to english:
"If Weedman, Aarmstrong, or MadAccountant are commanding Team 1 and JoeStupidN00b is commanding Team 2 - I want to play on Team 1 not Team 2. If Team 1 is already higher in skill than Team 2 the only team it will let me join will be 2, forcing me to play for JoeStupidN00b or sit out."
The thing is, while you may have to wait to join Team 1, you'd have to wait anyway under the current system. It's just that instead of fighting the other stackers with twitchy fingers on the join button, you have to fight the balancing system.
I'll go so far as to say you'll have to wait LESS time, since the system will prevent the "Team 1 all vets Team 2 all newbies" symptom that ends up with everyone just waiting for the next game. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: The system is going to have to balance in both directions. This means that not only does it have to make sure that a player joining isn't going to make that team's skill level too HIGH, it also has to make sure it won't make that team's skill level too LOW. It has to do this to prevent newbie stacking... if it doesn't and a bunch of newbies all join one team, then the other team is effectively closed since nobody will be able to join it.
I disagree. Say we've got Aarm/Weed/voob/voob/newb vs. Voob/voob/voob/voob/voob... no vet is going to join the voob comm regardless of how many newbs Aarm gets, but the game isn't going to get sufficiently stacked to end quickly. Instead Weedy will have to solobomb, which takes longer.Pook wrote:QUOTE (Pook @ Jul 26 2006, 01:31 AM) I'll go so far as to say you'll have to wait LESS time, since the system will prevent the "Team 1 all vets Team 2 all newbies" symptom that ends up with everyone just waiting for the next game. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
Noir's point is that the voobs and noobs can join freely in this scenario, but the vets end up lobbysitting. A lot.
QUOTE Noir's point is...[/quote]That's odd... I didn't see Noir post here. Are you his new PR lackey?
/mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />
You're assuming that a scenario with Aarm/Weed/voob/voob/newb vs. Voob/voob/voob/voob/voob would happen. If the balance button was used, it would actually split Aarm and Weed onto seperate teams.
If it happened "on the fly" then most likely once Aarm or Weed joined the other couldn't due to imbalance... remember both have high ranks and therefore I doubt that you'd get them both on the same team.
Of course, they COULD make it on the same team, but it would require another high ranking vet to join the OTHER team.
QUOTE no stack-whore is going to join the voob comm[/quote]
Fixed that for you.
/mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />
You're assuming that a scenario with Aarm/Weed/voob/voob/newb vs. Voob/voob/voob/voob/voob would happen. If the balance button was used, it would actually split Aarm and Weed onto seperate teams.
If it happened "on the fly" then most likely once Aarm or Weed joined the other couldn't due to imbalance... remember both have high ranks and therefore I doubt that you'd get them both on the same team.
Of course, they COULD make it on the same team, but it would require another high ranking vet to join the OTHER team.
QUOTE no stack-whore is going to join the voob comm[/quote]
Fixed that for you.
Last edited by Pook on Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
How will we mutiny stupid people when only one vet and 3 noobs can join a team because of some screwed up balance number?
And this proposal will not fix anything, I feel it will make it worse or keep everything the same. My reasons have been stated a few times in ELO and XT threads. The short points: The lack of equal commanders is the problem; commanders don't command due to player incompetence; and people can judge other players better than ANY computer code will ever be able to.
What do we need to fix? Player incompetence.
Is this possible? Probably not, sucky people will always suck.
So, either nothing will change or you'll lose more quality players than you'll gain with this senate proposal. This is already clearly evident due to the number of quality people agasint this. These super-vets won't be replaced by any amount of newbies, so gameplay will go down because of the leavers, then more quality will leave because of crappy gameplay, and alleg be stuck with 200 noobs. Enjoy what you brought apon yourselves.
And this proposal will not fix anything, I feel it will make it worse or keep everything the same. My reasons have been stated a few times in ELO and XT threads. The short points: The lack of equal commanders is the problem; commanders don't command due to player incompetence; and people can judge other players better than ANY computer code will ever be able to.
What do we need to fix? Player incompetence.
Is this possible? Probably not, sucky people will always suck.
So, either nothing will change or you'll lose more quality players than you'll gain with this senate proposal. This is already clearly evident due to the number of quality people agasint this. These super-vets won't be replaced by any amount of newbies, so gameplay will go down because of the leavers, then more quality will leave because of crappy gameplay, and alleg be stuck with 200 noobs. Enjoy what you brought apon yourselves.
Last edited by Freeza on Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To Punish and Enslave...
I thought we just finished saying that the balance button would never assign you to a team.Pook wrote:QUOTE (Pook @ Jul 26 2006, 02:05 AM) If the balance button was used, it would actually split Aarm and Weed onto seperate teams.
If it happened "on the fly" then most likely once Aarm or Weed joined the other couldn't due to imbalance... remember both have high ranks and therefore I doubt that you'd get them both on the same team.
Assuming it happens on the fly... then we have Aarm/Raindog/voob/voob/voob vs. Voob/voob/voob/voob...
Or my first scenario still works- I'll make more clear what I was thinking. Aarm/Weedman/newbie/newbie/newbie vs. Voob/4 voobs.
As for the bit about vets nobly antistacking... I would believe it if I saw it happening now. Which I do, it's true. 1% of the time or so.