AllegSkill

[vogue]

+1 for removing ranks all together

in my experience, I’ve found that the stackers will find a way to justify the stacking (“oh I anti stack 51%+ of my games”; really, then I must always be logging in for the other X%) — ranking system or not. only way to get around it is to git gud by anti stacking and become a game changer.

also to harp on PKKs point, allegskill was pretty easy to manipulate if you understood how the mu and sigma interact. a system like that might make sense when you have: 1) high volume of games & 2) everyone starting from zero in terms of skill — otherwise, pretty flawed.

[Raveen]

Jings. It's like the last 12 years never happened.

Thanks for the memories.

[LANS]

QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Mar 20 2018, 08:54 PM) More than half of my games I join the team that is less stacked. I'm not sure what more you want from an antistacker.

Don't lie. You are the stack.

QUOTE ( Saudade @ Mar 21 2018, 08:42 AM) we should remove ranks altogether =]

QUOTE (vogue @ Mar 21 2018, 09:26 AM) +1 for removing ranks all together

Agreed. Or even just leave it alone and realize that its just basically a measure of time played right now. Its basically useful for calling out when someone is new, and that's about it. I was against the old AllegSkill too, and am still against it now. We don't have a large enough community for matchmaking, expecting games to always be balanced and fair is a nice goal, but mostly ridiculous (seriously - have none of you ever played pick up team sports? Or literally any other online server-based game in the days before auto-matchmaking?)

QUOTE ( Saudade @ Mar 21 2018, 08:42 AM) However having a seperate website like spathiwa.net in the past that collects cool stats like kills, drones, base kills command wins and loses is a fun thing to have

Has been proposed, devs want to do it, have no time yet, will be done in TwoWeeks™, etc....

[qqmwoarplox]

I think making the above happen would benefit the game more than tweaking the UI or playing with the miner AI

[Wasp]

QUOTE (cashto @ Mar 21 2018, 12:29 AM) The notion that TrueSkill can't work when some players have different roles also comes purely from your own imagination

This is exactly the tactic baker used when he tried to sell that nonsense. You want to argue whether trueskill is a valid ranking system and make it appear that I am in opposition.

A commander isn't just another player. The things you want to consider random events are so great that they often determine outcome by themselves and yet those games are considered interesting and used anyway. The number of samples needed to determine individual rank would be astronomical. Yeah, I know how it works and how quickly it can determine rank, but not here. Not when there are so many variables that completely steal the cause of outcome and remove it from the players.

Trueskill is wonderful, it's the best thing since sliced bread!! Unfortunately, it's inapplicable to a game like allegiance and we wouldn't be here arguing about it if it worked.

[pkk]

Purpose of TrueSkill: automatically create (balanced) games from a large queue of players, so there is an enjoyable environment for all skill levels

Result of AllegSkill: e-pen

[cashto]

QUOTE (Wasp @ Mar 21 2018, 07:35 AM) Unfortunately, it's inapplicable to a game like allegiance and we wouldn't be here arguing about it if it worked.

Actually, I recall that it worked quite well -- the people at the top were always genuinely good players, and the people down in the middle were genuinely mediocre players. It didn't make mistakes like put TenForward at the top of the leaderboard on account of the number of games he's played -- unlike every other ranking system we've had.

No, the reason we're here arguing about it is that the same people who brought you running miners and combat scout loadouts also tried to "fix" the ranking system[*], because ranks were TOO STATIC in their opinion (ie, it too accurately reflected the fact that people's skills don't often change dramatically after years of play).

But the existence of people willing to argue that the earth is flat does not put the roundness of the earth into any serious question. And in this case, you're exactly like a flat earther: you believe your intuitions about how things work trump actual data, and there is no conceivable experiment that could potentially falsify your belief. So I guess we can spend another 12 years arguing about this, you've had no shortage of people explain to you in numerous ways why your argument that TrueSkill can't possibly apply to Allegiance amounts to no more than a mere assertion, one that you're unwilling to test. But each time you pretend to not hear them, claim that they're not making any sense, and once again repeat your question as to why, if the earth is round, people don't fall off the bottom?

[*] - to be fair, they also brought Allegiance on Steam, which is an awesome accomplishment, even if it didn't result in a long lasting revitalization of the Allegiance community.

[Wasp]

QUOTE (cashto @ Mar 21 2018, 12:53 PM) Actually, I recall that it worked quite well -- the people at the top were always genuinely good players

Laughable.

Sorting the leaderboard by kills on drones and k/e ratios provided better ranking than that "Allegskill" thing ever could. Seeing you here trying to sell it all over again, tells us that you're still in denial.

[Mastametz]

I'd of course argue for a purely Elo based system but Allegskill was not bad. Most accurate system we've used resulting in relatively balanced games - and still facilitating e-peen contest, which is important.

Just put it back in and I'll build a new leaderboard.

[Wasp]

...then what about newbie progression?

They don't like being a zero for 3 months.