PCore011 Changelog

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zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

It'd pretty much just be worse than their starting figs, which people complain about for some reason. They're figs that drop prox and cloak!
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Papsmear
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:00 am
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Post by Papsmear »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 6 2017, 05:55 PM) It'd pretty much just be worse than their starting figs, which people complain about for some reason. They're figs that drop prox and cloak!
Shall I assume this was a reply to azzwaldo's post?
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zombywoof
Posts: 6522
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

Oh, yeah, sorry. I made a couple of posts last night that appear to have disappeared from the forums. I kept wondering if I suddenly got placed on mod preview or something lol. I did respond to your post but the aether ate it apparently, so I'll respond again:
Papsmear wrote:QUOTE (Papsmear @ Jan 6 2017, 07:49 AM) Since it is easily reversible how about trying to lower Bios research time from 12 to 10 minutes? (I think it's 12 minutes??????)
Currently 10 minutes (5x normal time).
QUOTE See how it goes and if it doesn't work change it back or leave it but lower payday.
There are quite a few options available.[/quote]
I don't really want to take the sort of "let's just throw balance changes at the wall and see what sticks" approach I feel like you're advocating here. I'd rather be more precise and careful with how I balance the game.

QUOTE I want to see Bios played more and not get slaughtered early game.
They are a great faction that hardly ever gets used anymore.[/quote]
I want to see Bios played more and not result in the single most boring games in Allegiance history. They're a pretty terrible faction and they don't get used because games involving them aren't fun.

I know it's weird to think of changing this by starting with a nerf, but sometimes before a thing can be fixed it has to be broken a little more, you know? Like if a stud in a wall is broken, you can't just tie it up with a bandage, you have to pull out the insulation to get to the stud which you have to pull out and replace. (Look, I dunno construction :P ). The goal isn't to make Bios worse than it already is, the goal is to make Bios a more viable faction than it is, but one that's both fun to play and fun to play against.

Right now, just as an FYI, I'm leaning towards the following:

1) Pulling lt sfs/lt ints
2) Increasing fuel capacity and top speed of bios figs
3) Increasing cargo of basic, adv, and hvy scouts so that basic/adv carry 2 prox/probe and hvy 3
4) Increasing cost of bios techbases to 25k

In my mind what it'll do is this: Bios will have enough money to where after mining one sector (besides their home) to completion they can buy their techbase. This gives teams a window of about 8-9ish minutes to disrupt the Bios economy. After that, you'll basically be priced into bombing Bios. This will be challenging because they're going to have a LOT of probes and access to a LOT of prox, but generally speaking you have 10 minutes (until mini2/ints come up) to get through. Meanwhile they'll be pressuring your miners with long-range scout-and-fig missions and hitting your techbase-adjacent bases with stealth bomb runs from their hvy cloak bbrs.

It'll basically be more of the same but much less "whoops now we have to contend with mini2 6 minutes into the game." Basically the only faction that can reliably do something like that is Dregh, and isn't it weird to think that Dregh and Bios are the two earliest mini2 users?
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Papsmear
Posts: 4805
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Papsmear »

If the biggest complaint with Bios is losing in a long, slow and boring game, then the obvious fix is to make the game go faster.
Hence lowering their research time.
Change the research modifier to 4 or 4.5
Tech and tech bases in 8 or 9 minutes.
Everything is sped up just a touch making Bios a more viable faction.
Kill them even quicker or lose but at least the game will end quicker one way or another.
Which is what you say you are striving for.

Test it and tweek things after lowering research time.
As I mentioned it is a single change to make that can be reversed easily.
I think it should at least be given a chance.
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zombywoof
Posts: 6522
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

Lowering the research time just makes the main problem worse though (that there's basically no time to enact any sort of counterplay against Bios, you have to get in close to their exp and bomb it before mini2 comes online).
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Papsmear
Posts: 4805
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Papsmear »

I'm not sure if you were on-line and playing under a hider.
Yesterday's Bios Tac game kind of exemplified your point.
Although the other team almost killed the Tac.
Removing light ships might be too drastic.
Maybe a slight nerf to their sig or cloak time.
I'm not sure what the best option would be.
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zombywoof
Posts: 6522
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

That game was weird because their home Si rock was 4k from either aleph. If it was a more reasonable 2 or 3k (like most home tech rocks), that would have been a fairly easy game to win.

It was also a problem because I *hate* commanding the style of game that beats Bios and tac. If I had committed to bombers about five minutes earlier the game would have been easily over, but I really wanted to shore up my econ first.

Literally the reason we lost that game is because I find commanding against bios so cancerous I try to pretend like they're literally [insert any other $#@!ing faction here]. Perking them in any way would result in me literally throwing in the towel whenever someone picks bios and going, "nah, $#@! that, someone else command I'm going to go watch random youtube videos until the next game launches."
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
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