If anyone ever says "Allegiance would be fine if you did my idea" SAY IT NOW

Post by **Papsmear** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:08 pm

jbansk wrote:QUOTE (jbansk @ Apr 2 2015, 06:56 PM) I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic. The facts confirm my observations. Dispute them if you can.
TE isn't chipping in anything. He is getting his hosting for free. The reason he keeps control of it is so that he can.....have control of it.
If you want to keep Allegiance "afloat", you'd better raise it from the sea bed first.
I am not welcomed to join in, neither are you or anyone else. Just try to "join in" and see what happens.

Just to set you straight, TE owns and continues to pay for hosting FAO he is not getting his hosting for free.
He is out of pocket a few thousand dollars so far and that amount continues to grow every month.
TE freely admits he is an absent administrator but has entrusted the day to day administration of the site to pkk.

I had a discussion with TE last year about this site and he told me then he would be willing to give up ownership for free.
At the time of discussion there was no clear person who was equipped to take on ownership, adminstration and the costs involved.

I am in a position that I could take on ownership of the website and cover the costs to run it.
My biggest problem is I have no idea how to administer a site, port it to a new location upgrade the site, etc.
If there is a trustworthy member of the community that would like to step up and take on ownership or administration of this website.
Feel free to post here or PM me.

Regards
Paps

Sycrus · Post by **Sycrus** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:19 pm

Paps

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:24 am

Papsmear wrote:QUOTE (Papsmear @ Apr 4 2015, 03:08 PM) Just to set you straight, TE owns and continues to pay for hosting FAO he is not getting his hosting for free.
He is out of pocket a few thousand dollars so far and that amount continues to grow every month.
TE freely admits he is an absent administrator but has entrusted the day to day administration of the site to pkk.

I had a discussion with TE last year about this site and he told me then he would be willing to give up ownership for free.
At the time of discussion there was no clear person who was equipped to take on ownership, adminstration and the costs involved.

I am in a position that I could take on ownership of the website and cover the costs to run it.
My biggest problem is I have no idea how to administer a site, port it to a new location upgrade the site, etc.
If there is a trustworthy member of the community that would like to step up and take on ownership or administration of this website.
Feel free to post here or PM me.

Regards
Paps

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:49 am

Trustworthy

During the yearish I had a server up, I spent over 1k USD, without regret, and did so never taking a dime after seeing Thalgor's "thanks". @#(! imho a couple of thousand spread across all TE years is admirable but even this version of the community can absorb it without missing a beat. I'm not mother $#@!ing TE but Im not putting him on a pedestal for it either. His absence is a problem, his death grip on things based on a lack of trust is a problem. Those two hinder any chance of a comeback more than all the rest of stuff we whing about combined.

So why bring it up you no playing @#$%@# MrChaos? I care, just like all the others like me. We care pretty much cause I watched us all grow together. Bacon is married and FBD (phoniex) has core lead ffs! Still the reality is the trolls like jbansk and wasp'spew has a point. You want to make real change and you hit the "trustworthy" barrier.

I'm sure I'm "trustworthy" and I feel I've never convinced TE. Why is something I don't understand. So rather than type at each other let's meet in person to figure out what and who is "trustworthy".

So I pledge 2000 USD so all those willing to show, pledge time, pledge expertise, pledge cash, and/or pledge relevant experience can meet in person. You get to the event and I'll cover things like room and board for those that cannot up to 2k USD. You want somewhere else other than my area of the world put up your money in the same fashion and I'll use that 2k to show. I'm thinking right after US Labor day rates drop, weather is still nice, and school is just starting up. Two or three days place TBD but Northern Michigan is nice and affordable room and board wise. TE should attend of course if he wishes to find his replacement. We can WebEx too but elbow rubbing is best for "trustworthy".

We need to pass the torch right and this is the way to do it. Face to face so those that want to run things can figure out "trustworthy". I'll be getting @#(! faced and hitting on your women because other than money I got nothing else given I'm all done running face first into the "trustworthy" barrier.

Paps if this flies can you please set up a fund so everyone can see I'm serious. We need active vision, active leadership and I don't want nor do I think we can handle either another shadow government or a palace revolt.

*shrug* It might be brilliant or pants on the head dumb but I'm trying to move the needle which is stuck on oh 2012 or so.

peet · Post by **peet** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:30 am

I think this is getting a bit too emotional, with "hurt feelings from the past" dragged alongside.

First: kudos for all the great persons here trying to keep FA going, and put the action with their words! Very positive.

There are many fine trust worthy persons here on FA which can handle the administration of a forum, security- and game servers. Also there are some people which can spend the couple hundreds of USD a month to finance it. That is not the problem. There are fine coders too.

The problem I see is that there is no general direction to go with allegiance. Even more importantly the mixed roles of the same persons. Which causes too much problems, and envy, and a trench warfare. Dare I say it, yes even hate.

The administrator (maintainer of the software / hardware) is most likely a neutral person who just keeps the boring stuff going no matter the direction FA is going. Most IT capable persons I know hardly want to step into a snake pit. Just like a corporation.

Than there are the "wise guys" who discuss the future of FA. They are likely playing FA for years and know the dirty secrets of every important person and every bug or exploit. They know player X simply by looking at how a ship moves through space.

Furthermore I see a role for the "moderators" and "law enforcements" to keep the forum content neat and the game server clean of cheaters.

Now a hot item. In the past I saw some game coders / database experts / good willing tinkers make modifications on FA, and therefor falling into the snakepit of "deciding the future of FA", which emotional discussions. If you change a part of the game you are basically changing the future of FA. While this can be optional (forking factions), it also pollutes the general direction where FA is going.

Last but not least there are the generous financiers with deep pockets which can spend the USD to run this all. Some I know hardly care for the day to day politics of FA, they just want to support the future.

___

My dear MrC, before pledging, there are easier ways to get face to face (like a group video chat). It might be cheaper than inviting persons from all over the world to the USA (go TSA groping and NSA spying)

I feel confident there are more urgent matters you can spend the pledge on.

My dear Paps. Please think very very carefully about how you are going to organize your "takeover" of FA. Spending money on a lost ship without a captain, no one at the helm, and a crew of "remarkable characters" might easy get you run away screaming. Please make sure you coordinate it wisely.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

/edit: grammar and clarify.

Post by **MagisterXF94** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:50 am

peet wrote:QUOTE (peet @ Apr 5 2015, 01:30 PM) I think this is getting a bit too emotional, with "hurt feelings from the past" dragged alongside.

There are many fine trust worthy persons here on FA which can handle the administration of a forum, security- and game servers. Also there are some people which can spend the couple hundreds of USD a month to finance it. That is not the problem. There are fine coders too.

The problem I see is that there is no general direction to go with allegiance. Even more importantly the mixed roles of the same persons. Which causes too much problems, and envy, and a trench warfare. Dare I say it, yes even hate.

The administrator (maintainer of the software / hardware) is most likely a neutral person who just keeps the boring stuff going no matter the direction FA is going. Most IT capable persons I know hardly want to step into a snake pit. Just like a corporation.

Than there are the "wise guys" who discuss the future of FA. They are likely playing FA for years and know the dirty secrets of every important person and every bug or exploit. They know player X simply by looking at how a ship moves through space.

Furthermore I see a role for the "moderators" and "law enforcements" to keep the forum content neat and the game server clean of cheaters.

Now a hot item. In the past I saw some game coders / database experts / good willing tinkers make modifications on FA, and therefor falling into the snakepit of "deciding the future of FA", which emotional discussions. If you change a part of the game you are basically changing the future of FA. While this can be optional (forking factions), it also pollutes the general direction where FA is going.

Last but not least there are the generous financiers with deep pockets which can spend the USD to run this all. Some I know hardly care for the day to day politics of FA, they just want to support the future.

___

My dear MrC, before pledging, there are easier ways to get face to face (like a group video chat). It might be cheaper than inviting persons from all over the world to the USA (go TSA groping and NSA spying) I feel confident there are more urgent matters you can spend the pledge on.

My dear Paps. Please think very very carefully about how you are going to organize your "takeover" of FA. Spending money on a lost ship without a captain, no one at the helm, and a crew of "remarkable characters" might easy get you run away screaming. Please make sure you coordinate it wisely.

To all the wise guys here, it could be time for a "soft coup", politely grab the keys of the game, thank the silent ones with many great words. Sometimes a "kind and gentle coup" can be better than a "dragging through the mud pseudo democracy". Make a list of the persons in each field of expertise, set a goal, and just keep going.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

/edit: grammar and clarify.

Kudos to you Peet, your posts have always been spot on.

Now, I think we need to focus on which people fit in each category peet entailed.

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:42 pm

Well video has always been available.... just I know those options still leave a layer of impersonal behavior. I live on my work phones, laptops in this manner and have noticed a definite different behavior then face to face meetings. Yeah I can definitely use it for other things peet

Whoever takes over will reap the whirlwind tbs. Heed peet's words carefully.

edit: just to be sure

I definitely do not hate TE quite the opposite in fact fwiw peet. For all I know there are endless good reasons for this lack of trust from other quarters and I just stumbled eager puppy across the hot buttons setting off the death rays. *shrug*

finisher2 · Post by **finisher2** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:12 pm

All we have to do is rename Allegiance "Firefly" and model a belts scout after Serenity.

Game Saved.

peet · Post by **peet** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:49 pm

Ok, let me give you Wise Men and Financiers a suggestion to defuse a potential disaster.

Currently the "value" of FA in relation to the game itself supports on 3 pillars.

1) The Domain Name (www, DNS, ip address...)
2) The Software (Operating System, Forum + user content, Databases, and applications...)
3) The Hardware

Currently (2) is the most critical asset. Every coder, graphical artist, database designer and gamer has contributed to it. You can fairly easy rent another server on a datacenter or port another url to the game.

It also means that who holds (2) is in Total Control of FA. Without (2) there is no way to reconstruct FA. This has always been the weak and the strong point of TE.

Since (2) holds Secret Information (like access control for legit game clients, passwords, secret forums and PM's), you can not simply distribute (2) to others. You don't want someone to inspect the backup and hack Innocent players.

For the short term I propose:

Make a 5 / 7 (ratio) Shamir Secret Sharing of the full backup of the whole FA ecosystem. Since FA runs in Virtual Machines (correct?), this should be a fairly easy. Backup the VM images and create the SSS parts. With the same SSS Algorithm you can also protect the passwords of various systems (like currently being done, TE distributed SSS parts of the passwords).

Distribute the 7 SSS parts of the FA backup to 7 Wise Men, which will be responsible deciding the future of FA. In case of an emergency:
A) The Wise Men will organize an emergency meeting (skype / mumble / in person)

At least 5 of the 7 Wise men will combine their SSS parts to reconstruct the FA backup and reconstruct the passwords
C) The Wise Men will appoint a new admin which will reinstall the software and applications.

The secrets of the FA software backup are protected. One men alone can not reconstruct nor view parts of the FA backup. At least 5 SSS parts are needed to view anything.

Why all this fuss you ask?

A) SSS prevents one rotten apple taking FA hostage for his demands. If you get a - say - ragequitting admin or the owner goes beserk and terminates the datacenter contract, the others can recreate FA.

The ones giving money to FA now have peace of mind, knowing their money is safe in the combines hand of several men.
C) In case of an emergency there is always a spare backup available
D) It forces a combined action of several men together to decide of the fate of FA, which promotes democracy.

My advise for the Future Admins

The Wise Men should find at least 3 or more uneven number of Trusted Admins. Uneven so a vote can not stall. More than 1, otherwise 1 person holds too much power (unless you have the SSS copies).

The 3 Trusted Admins could work in a rotating schedule to avoid work overload.

The Trusted Admins should be on different continents, so there is A) 24 hours a day support (if needed) and

backups are available at separated locations. Even if the whole USA is cut off from internet, FA can be restarted.

One of the Trusted Admins should be based in the USA for easy phone access to the Data Center and preferred contact person to The Owner.

Discuss

My 2 cents.

/Edit: grrr, trying to write an post at 2 am in another language is not the smartest thing I have done!

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:28 am

Actually something similar to what Peet suggests was implemented by TE when we still had ZLs as a backup in case he went AFK etc. Eacch of the ZLS had access to a part of the SSS so they could access and rework FA if needed.