Creationism and science?

fuzzylunkin1 · Post by **fuzzylunkin1** » Mon May 14, 2012 11:02 pm

I'm not going to poke him about it, just got tired of arguing about it with him and posted here. I feel like one of the reasons he brings it up so much is because I've introduced doubt into his life.

*shrug* Not sure.

Sundance_ · Post by **Sundance_** » Mon May 14, 2012 11:25 pm

Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ May 14 2012, 05:27 PM) What's wrong with it is going against the principle of parsimony. In layman's terms, you shouldn't look for contrived explanations where a simple and logical one will do. The complexity of life is sufficiently and clearly explained by molecular biology, organic chemistry and... evolution. There is no need for anything supernatural to be involved in the process, so assuming something supernatural is going on goes against the principle of parsimony (not to mention simple logic).

***

To answer Fuzz's original question, I think the puzzle has a lot to do with Cognitive Dissonance. On some level your friend must know he holds two conflicting worldviews. The friend seems to be a fundamentalist in the "god must exist" sense at least, and probably for him to accept evolution would make him doubt gods existence... so he doesn't even seriously consider it.

I have one question regarding the "simplest explanation" of evolution.

Obviously, the simplest forms of life are bacterias and the like... and I believe we as humans evolved from them...

But where did THEY come from...?
And we're the most advanced evolutionary species on the planet...
Did we REALLY get to be this intelligent and aware of our surroundings by "chance" evolution?

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:13 am

Sundance_ wrote:QUOTE (Sundance_ @ May 15 2012, 02:25 AM) I have one question regarding the "simplest explanation" of evolution.

Obviously, the simplest forms of life are bacterias and the like... and I believe we as humans evolved from them...

But where did THEY come from...?

That is the organic chemistry part. Amino Acids form in natural chemical reactions, and they are the basic building blocks of all life on Earth (like DNA and RNA). Lipids (fats) can form soap bubble like droplets which work like cell walls.

Basically instead of a watchmaker assembling the first cell, all you need is hydrocarbons, water, sunlight and time... Lots and lots of time for everything to come together just right. That is why understanding geological time is the key to the puzzle of life. Ask Raveen, and you will most likely hear that million years is hardly long enough to consider on the age of our planet.

QUOTE And we're the most advanced evolutionary species on the planet...[/quote]
We arent really. A modern cocroach or hantavirus is as evolved as we are. They, like us, are under selection pressure and constantly changing to thrive in their surroundings

QUOTE Did we REALLY get to be this intelligent and aware of our surroundings by "chance" evolution?[/quote]
Intelligence is a great way to survive, find food and have offspring. Those things are the fuel that drives evolution. All mammals (and birds) are brainy. We are complex social apes, and all this cooperation / competition and pair bonding has made us so smart we have a high sense of self and complex culture. Isn't it fun. To show off we even developed Allegiance, and pretend to make war in space... Just for entertainment!

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:25 am

Sundance_ wrote:QUOTE (Sundance_ @ May 14 2012, 04:25 PM) I have one question regarding the "simplest explanation" of evolution.

Obviously, the simplest forms of life are bacterias and the like... and I believe we as humans evolved from them...

But where did THEY come from...?
And we're the most advanced evolutionary species on the planet...
Did we REALLY get to be this intelligent and aware of our surroundings by "chance" evolution?

That's the monkey and typewriters argument. You put a monkey in a room with a typewriter and have him write forever and eventually he'll write all of Shakespeare's works (or having infinite monkeys writing at the same time). I believe Richard Dawkins used this analogy at one point to argue against intelligent design.

I don't believe evolution tries to explain the origin of life. And I don't think we know where life comes from (or even sentience) but I think we will eventually find out. I mean we don't know a lot of things. We don't know if there are aliens out there, but we can find out.

From what I've seen on the internet, a lot of the creationists pull the "but we don't know the origin of life" card, but that is not a really good reason to throw evolution out the window entirely. It's just incomplete information. I don't know exactly how neurotoxins affect my central nervous system, but does that mean I don't believe that certain spiders are venomous? Not at all.

Sundance_ · Post by **Sundance_** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:44 am

CronoDroid wrote:QUOTE (CronoDroid @ May 14 2012, 07:25 PM) That's the monkey and typewriters argument. You put a monkey in a room with a typewriter and have him write forever and eventually he'll write all of Shakespeare's works (or having infinite monkeys writing at the same time). I believe Richard Dawkins used this analogy at one point to argue against intelligent design.

I don't believe evolution tries to explain the origin of life. And I don't think we know where life comes from (or even sentience) but I think we will eventually find out. I mean we don't know a lot of things. We don't know if there are aliens out there, but we can find out.

From what I've seen on the internet, a lot of the creationists pull the "but we don't know the origin of life" card, but that is not a really good reason to throw evolution out the window entirely. It's just incomplete information. I don't know exactly how neurotoxins affect my central nervous system, but does that mean I don't believe that certain spiders are venomous? Not at all.

Would the monkey eventually write shakespear, though? I mean.... theoretically the probability of him succeeding as time becomes infinite becomes very close to 100%, but my very limited retention of my calculus/derivatives classes in college remind me (maybe incorrectly) that the value never becomes concrete...

Is it possible the monkey keeps failing?

And Adept, another good question for earth is.... did our bacteria evolve from soup or did the bacteria that started life on earth come from comets or asteroids? (They of course getting their bacteria from normal formation you mentioned)?

WE COULD ALL BE ALIENS!!!!

Elzam_ · Post by **Elzam_** » Tue May 15, 2012 5:25 am

Convergent Series are the answer the monkey issue.

clint · Post by **clint** » Tue May 15, 2012 8:07 am

Chance ? ahah, Chance doesn't exist.

Create a monocellular bacterie is like put together Jimmy page, John Paul John joined after by John Bonham and Robert Plant. And they form Led Zeppelin, its only cause of one guitarist who leave Yardbird and give them the possibility to be together.

God exist, and his name is : Eric Clapton

Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ May 14 2012, 08:13 PM) All mammals (and birds) are brainy.

Are you sure ? We are some guys here ... (I give no name, cause I don't wanna be bannd for personnal attack

)

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Tue May 15, 2012 9:46 am

Sundance_ wrote:QUOTE (Sundance_ @ May 15 2012, 05:44 AM) And Adept, another good question for earth is.... did our bacteria evolve from soup or did the bacteria that started life on earth come from comets or asteroids? (They of course getting their bacteria from normal formation you mentioned)?

WE COULD ALL BE ALIENS!!!!

seems they are home grown. Not that it really matters for the origin of life question.

Raven_42 · Post by **Raven_42** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:26 pm

If there is life on extraterrestrial territory then we are indeed aliens, at least from some perspectives.

SgtMajor · Post by **SgtMajor** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:57 pm

clint wrote:QUOTE (clint @ May 15 2012, 02:07 AM) Chance ? ahah, Chance doesn't exist.

Create a monocellular bacterie is like put together Jimmy page, John Paul John joined after by John Bonham and Robert Plant. And they form Led Zeppelin, its only cause of one guitarist who leave Yardbird and give them the possibility to be together.

God exist, and his name is : Eric Clapton

Are you sure ? We are some guys here ... (I give no name, cause I don't wanna be bannd for personnal attack )

Yawn, don't be a wuss and say it, to not think about consequences is the man's way of life

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