Tech protection for all mk 3 tech

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:10 am

Here's someting I'd like to hear opinions on.

I'd like to make stealing mk 3 tech require an advanced tech base. That way, for instance in an exp vs. exp game, the dominant team can buy mini 3 for their heavy ints without also gifting it to their opponents. It should shorten play and get rid of those mini 1 exp vs. exp games, and the even worse sup vs. sup games where neither side want's to buy any tech.

Specifically for Belters they should require the corresponding basic techbase for access to mk 3 tech, but retain the ability to steal and use any mk 2 tech as they do now (thanks Phantom). This will at least mean that a belters sup team will not be mounting mini 3 on their figs unless they invest in an exp station.

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:56 am

The only reason any would not want this is

"I want to comm and bomb endlessly while I let all my miners die but not care because I don't need money because I steal all the enemy's tech all game as belters sup" [Nightflame]

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:31 am

Let's see how many vote now then

Nightflame · Post by **Nightflame** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:52 pm

I guess it's up to me to post the counterargument.

Who said mini3 is better than mini1 in exp games? Besides that, mkIII tech doesn't end games! Getting a htt past mini1 hvy ints is completely different from getting it past mini3 hvy ints. The net effect won't be shorter games, quite the opposite. In these circumstances, defenses will be better and teams will have less to spend on game ending tech. This just replaces one problem (not getting good tech) with another (can't end the game).

While better tech is certainly more fun to use, getting shot at with better tech is not more fun. In the case of a skill discrepancy, it widens the gap. While veteran int hos may like it, the less able dogfighters -- who mostly don't post here -- may not be so enamored. If you want to be able to continue getting better tech, you could add extra tiers like in RPS. You'll notice that most cores haven't. That's because it's not nearly as fun as it seems on first glance.

To quote cashto: "Though the way it works now, there's a sort of "mutually assured destruction" which keeps two exp teams from being the first to research mini3. Now the situation is that one team can buy mini3 without fear of it being stolen, the other team might likely buy it too just to keep up. Ergo, each team makes choices which are in their individual best interest, but results in a worse game for both."

To sum up the arguments against: This would prolong games by making winning harder. This would discourage multiteching. This would seriously change the game.
EDIT: I misread the topic and posted an argument against a different change. Please ignore.

MonAG · Post by **MonAG** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:34 pm

Night, I don´t completely understand your counterargument. I think that what we are voting is that you CAN steal the tech, but you need having the appropriate tech base to use it?

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:51 pm

How did I know it was going to be him
oh yeah, because every one of his winning "strategies" are dependent on him buying stuff that can't be killed because the opposing team doesn't good enough tech to do so
he belters carrier rushes because he knows the carrier will never die against MK1 tech, he bomb rushes because he knows belters bombers are way too strong and extremely difficult to kill with mk1 tech, and then buys a sup so he has fighters that will steal anything researched above T1 tech to discourage anyone from ever getting better than T1 tech so his carriers, bombers, and possibly frigates, can never die.

and everything he posted is completely wrong
QUOTE This would prolong games by making winning harder. This would discourage multiteching[/quote]
No and no. It makes winning harder if you're trying to win with a lower tier of tech vs a higher tier of tech, in which case you should lose. Specifically it makes winning with reg bombers harder against adv tech, and that's your entire concern because that is your entire gameplan of every game.
Htts work against mini3, SBs work against mini3, hvy bombers with aleph res 3 work against mini3, f/b + tp2 work again mini3, capships work again mini3 - because they are appropriate levels of tech relative to what they are facing

QUOTE While better tech is certainly more fun to use, getting shot at with better tech is not more fun. In the case of a skill discrepancy, it widens the gap. While veteran int hos may like it, the less able dogfighters -- who mostly don't post here -- may not be so enamored.[/quote]
He literally just pitched that tech upgrades make the game less fun - if you're bad - therefor they shouldn't exist - Using RPS as an example
RPS is one of the most balanced and fun cores, it's just that people play it on retard money settings that make it stupid
and the worst part is he probably just convinced several people to vote "no" because they fail at reading comprehension

QUOTE mkIII tech doesn't end games![/quote]
Yes, it does.

probably all of SF-BS will vote "no" because the fact that this isn't implemented is the only reason they're getting any success in the league despite being extremely terrible

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:25 pm

Nightflame wrote:QUOTE (Nightflame @ Mar 22 2012, 04:52 PM) Who said mini3 is better than mini1 in exp games? Besides that, mkIII tech doesn't end games! Getting a htt past mini1 hvy ints is completely different from getting it past mini3 hvy ints. The net effect won't be shorter games, quite the opposite. In these circumstances, defenses will be better and teams will have less to spend on game ending tech. This just replaces one problem (not getting good tech) with another (can't end the game).

um, no. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

Team A is winning. It has mined more He3 and controls the map. As a result team A upgrades their techbase, and goes for mk 3 tech. Let's keep with the mini 3 on their heavy interceptors.

Team B is on the defencive. They are stuck with ints, and because of the change they can't steal mini 3 for the whole team. Individual whores can steal them, but they will also lose them easily once again as they are still fighting heavies with regular ints. Probably heavies with damage GA 2 for that matter, while they have damage 1 or not even that.

As a result team A should be able to overpower team B easier than currently. They'll heavy int bomb, or force through an HTT run. -> win.

Nightflame · Post by **Nightflame** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:43 pm

I completely misread the topic as a copy of this one:
http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...=65496&st=0

My apologies. I approve of this proposal.

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:45 pm

It's more or less to the same effect

besides, everything you posted is *applicable* to this topic
it is just $#@!ing dumb
and it'd be dumb in any other topic you posted it in, too

Nightflame · Post by **Nightflame** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Not quite. The differences are important to my reasons against.