Ways to get newbies to stay
yo i may help you do that, send me a link and i'll do what i canSpunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Jan 24 2012, 12:59 PM) The training materials are good, but very long. They have to be redone in bite-size, easier to consume chunks.
I've taken on some of the task, and already shortened & cleaned up a few articles. But it needs more and I'm not finding the time these days...it'll take a while if I'm the only one working on it.
QUOTE 08/15/14 20:08:53: BabelFish (all): there are too many blacks on[/quote]
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Archangelus
- Posts: 2376
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:36 pm
- Location: Paradise City
If I can help in any way...Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Jan 24 2012, 05:59 PM) The training materials are good, but very long. They have to be redone in bite-size, easier to consume chunks.
I've taken on some of the task, and already shortened & cleaned up a few articles. But it needs more and I'm not finding the time these days...it'll take a while if I'm the only one working on it.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
Uh, Hello again.
I joined up almost exactly a year ago and played for a month or so. I was thinking that it might be fun to get back in again and since I see this thread here I figured I'd give you my thoughts.
One thing I read on the common newbie mistakes article on allegwiki is the following:
Broadcasting useless information to the entire team
There is a minimap which displays all ship information for the entire map. An experienced player can read it far faster than you could ever type it in.
Saying things such as 'There are two enemy scouts in Rigel', 'There is an enemy bomber in Aeroflex' is just a waste of your time, and clutters the message box.
OK, so I won't do that. But I'd dearly love to have someone relaying that to me! Getting a strategic overview of what's happening in a mumble channel would be utterly awesome. Even that bit of text demonstrates something that was extremely tough to keep straight: sector names. I understand "left midhigh", but I'm going to have to look up the other names on the minimap, which takes some time. I found myself going to the wrong sector all the time.
A quick faction assessment at the start of the game might help us as well. I had decent knowledge of the technical differences at one point, but didn't really know how that translated into strategy. If our opponent is weak in the early game and the commander is likely to get aggressive early let me know that. Similarly I had a basic understanding of the three tech-paths, but didn't know if I would need to start doing something different due to us or the enemy building a certain base.
I've never been a great dogfighter in any game, so I don't expect to ever become particularly great in this one. I'd be perfectly happy to do nothing but probe, prox, nan and ram most of the time, with an occasional foray into miner/constructor hunting or defending. I also got a weird thrill from de-probing as well. What I really need help with is knowing when to switch between those things. I'd actually be incredibly thrilled if I got knowledgeable enough to be left in charge of He3 mining occasionally.
I recall occasionally hopping in some fighter turrets and quite honestly that was very discouraging because since I wasn't flying the ship I couldn't predict the movement of the ship I was in, much less the enemy ship. Bomber turrets are better, but overall I think you may be over-rating how helpful our being in a turret is. The best part of it from my perspective was giving me some time to watch the minimap closer and try to figure out what was going on. The absolute coolest thing you can let us do is either help hunt miners or make sure we get to help nan a bombing run - though you may not want us ramming for a bit.
Honestly, it all really boils down to communicating with us and helping us with the severe cognitive load this game imposes.
That's my 2 cents for you. Maybe I'll see you in game sometime in the next few weeks.
I joined up almost exactly a year ago and played for a month or so. I was thinking that it might be fun to get back in again and since I see this thread here I figured I'd give you my thoughts.
One thing I read on the common newbie mistakes article on allegwiki is the following:
Broadcasting useless information to the entire team
There is a minimap which displays all ship information for the entire map. An experienced player can read it far faster than you could ever type it in.
Saying things such as 'There are two enemy scouts in Rigel', 'There is an enemy bomber in Aeroflex' is just a waste of your time, and clutters the message box.
OK, so I won't do that. But I'd dearly love to have someone relaying that to me! Getting a strategic overview of what's happening in a mumble channel would be utterly awesome. Even that bit of text demonstrates something that was extremely tough to keep straight: sector names. I understand "left midhigh", but I'm going to have to look up the other names on the minimap, which takes some time. I found myself going to the wrong sector all the time.
A quick faction assessment at the start of the game might help us as well. I had decent knowledge of the technical differences at one point, but didn't really know how that translated into strategy. If our opponent is weak in the early game and the commander is likely to get aggressive early let me know that. Similarly I had a basic understanding of the three tech-paths, but didn't know if I would need to start doing something different due to us or the enemy building a certain base.
I've never been a great dogfighter in any game, so I don't expect to ever become particularly great in this one. I'd be perfectly happy to do nothing but probe, prox, nan and ram most of the time, with an occasional foray into miner/constructor hunting or defending. I also got a weird thrill from de-probing as well. What I really need help with is knowing when to switch between those things. I'd actually be incredibly thrilled if I got knowledgeable enough to be left in charge of He3 mining occasionally.
I recall occasionally hopping in some fighter turrets and quite honestly that was very discouraging because since I wasn't flying the ship I couldn't predict the movement of the ship I was in, much less the enemy ship. Bomber turrets are better, but overall I think you may be over-rating how helpful our being in a turret is. The best part of it from my perspective was giving me some time to watch the minimap closer and try to figure out what was going on. The absolute coolest thing you can let us do is either help hunt miners or make sure we get to help nan a bombing run - though you may not want us ramming for a bit.
Honestly, it all really boils down to communicating with us and helping us with the severe cognitive load this game imposes.
That's my 2 cents for you. Maybe I'll see you in game sometime in the next few weeks.
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TangoVictor
- Posts: 562
- Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:07 am
- Location: USA
This guy ^ (VTurtle) deserves a medal ladies and gentlemen. Do we even get much input from newer players other than "Please ask questions"?
PS seriously though guys this thread started as a joke... And now it's super serious...
PS seriously though guys this thread started as a joke... And now it's super serious...
Dome wrote:QUOTE (Dome @ Dec 12 2012, 05:09 AM) I thought Tango was a 35 y/o Virginian tobacco farmer before I found out he's the same age as my sister. =P
"You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not" -John Lennonblake420 wrote:QUOTE (blake420 @ Feb 16 2013, 04:42 AM) bah, you can't just take the asl and like it? fine you are demoted to TangoVictor's personal concubine.
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bigbellydude
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:21 am
- Location: Santa Cruz, CA
@VTurtle: 
It is extremely important for the vets to communicate well with the newbs. That means that if a newb asks a really dumb question, or does something incredibly stupid (I'm sure I never did either of those things...
), the vets should actually take the time to answer the question/correct the mistake with a minimal "You BLEEPING peice of bullBLEEP".
Forgive my voice, I think I swallowed a buzzer.
It is extremely important for the vets to communicate well with the newbs. That means that if a newb asks a really dumb question, or does something incredibly stupid (I'm sure I never did either of those things...
), the vets should actually take the time to answer the question/correct the mistake with a minimal "You BLEEPING peice of bullBLEEP". Forgive my voice, I think I swallowed a buzzer.
Last edited by bigbellydude on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Some people are like a Slinkie. They aren't good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Yoda: "Do or do not; there is no try, just do." Qui-Gon Jinn: "Your focus determines your reality."
Yoda: "Do or do not; there is no try, just do." Qui-Gon Jinn: "Your focus determines your reality."
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fuzzylunkin1
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Zero_Falcon
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:14 am
- Location: Singapore
As a PUG I think it would be better to have an integrated voice chat feature so the comm doesn't have to tell every new pilot who hops onto the team what their mumble server password is. And because it would be more convenient this way I expect there would be increased use of communication by voice. The last game where I got to use Mumble was... 2 years ago.fuzzylunkin1 wrote:QUOTE (fuzzylunkin1 @ Jan 27 2012, 12:58 PM) Here's one place where integrated voice chat could be useful. It's not hard for anyone to get Mumble and connect, but new players usually don't even bother to look.
Also, coordinating via voice channels in Team Fortress 2 was awesome. You could yell warnings in there and everyone will receive the message whereas text warnings get drowned out by the battle fray.
Last edited by Zero_Falcon on Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
The text/voice chat feature is truly impressive, but it's one more addition to the hefty cognitive load of this game. I'm sure vets have it all pretty much in muscle memory and if you had to say any of those phrases in real life your fingers would probably twitch like you were typing it, but it's rather overwhelming for us noobs. I remember thinking okay, ~ first, then a then... oh look I'm taking a pod ride. Integrating voice chat would be really awesome.fuzzylunkin1 wrote:QUOTE (fuzzylunkin1 @ Jan 26 2012, 11:58 PM) Here's one place where integrated voice chat could be useful. It's not hard for anyone to get Mumble and connect, but new players usually don't even bother to look.
You know what would be incredibly awesome for R7, and easier than integrated voice? Fully customizable quickchat functions, including the ability to group them any way you like. 
I'm sure this was suggested some time in the past, though... It could be a little stand-alone program that edits the relevant file (quickchat.mdl, I believe?), though if this program could be integrated into Allegiance itself and easy to find in the menus, it'd be even better...
It'd help solve the newbies-being-overwhelmed-by-the-VC problem, since a newbie could just choose a few of the voice chats they are likely to use most often, and assign them to whatever key combos they find intuitive to remember. (And by newbies I mean "me, this would be so awesome, oh god I keep forgetting everything".) They could also move all the voice chats they probably won't use into a "leftover" menu somewhere at the bottom of the list, so that they won't get in the way and make more useful chats easier to find. If the player later discovers one of those "leftover" voice chats is useful after all, they could quickly move it back to somewhere more accessible. Because each player could tailor the voice chats to their personal needs, there won't be a need to re-memorize new chat packs (like TE's, etc.,) which can just add more confusion and more things to remember. The stand-alone program could also provide, naturally, a quick and complete list of the keys and VCs, making them easier to remember...
I wonder how complex this would be? Would it need to edit any other files, or would playing around with quickchat.mdl be enough? Anyway, if it were possible, it could be a quick way for new pilots (also voobs like me) to improve their communication ability to tide us over until someone finds a way to code in integrated voice.
I'm sure this was suggested some time in the past, though... It could be a little stand-alone program that edits the relevant file (quickchat.mdl, I believe?), though if this program could be integrated into Allegiance itself and easy to find in the menus, it'd be even better... It'd help solve the newbies-being-overwhelmed-by-the-VC problem, since a newbie could just choose a few of the voice chats they are likely to use most often, and assign them to whatever key combos they find intuitive to remember. (And by newbies I mean "me, this would be so awesome, oh god I keep forgetting everything".) They could also move all the voice chats they probably won't use into a "leftover" menu somewhere at the bottom of the list, so that they won't get in the way and make more useful chats easier to find. If the player later discovers one of those "leftover" voice chats is useful after all, they could quickly move it back to somewhere more accessible. Because each player could tailor the voice chats to their personal needs, there won't be a need to re-memorize new chat packs (like TE's, etc.,) which can just add more confusion and more things to remember. The stand-alone program could also provide, naturally, a quick and complete list of the keys and VCs, making them easier to remember...
I wonder how complex this would be? Would it need to edit any other files, or would playing around with quickchat.mdl be enough? Anyway, if it were possible, it could be a quick way for new pilots (also voobs like me) to improve their communication ability to tide us over until someone finds a way to code in integrated voice.
Last edited by Makida on Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.