Gingrich

Kopperhead · Post by **Kopperhead** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:36 am

Right, it's how's this $#@!ing life...

In the meantime, enjoy Cellowars

germloucks · Post by **germloucks** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:03 pm

The people always get the government they deserve.

Sindertone · Post by **Sindertone** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:14 pm

Nothing new on the newt, but It's looking like Ron for me. Obama was bush II. I'm no fan of Ron, he's simply the only one with any sense of how to reduce the deficit, end the wars.

Sundance_ · Post by **Sundance_** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:10 pm

Sindertone wrote:QUOTE (Sindertone @ Dec 5 2011, 09:14 AM) Nothing new on the newt, but It's looking like Ron for me. Obama was bush II. I'm no fan of Ron, he's simply the only one with any sense of how to reduce the deficit, end the wars.

No, Obama was Jimmy Carter II.

Malicious Wraith · Post by **Malicious Wraith** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:27 pm

I dislike how the big banner for Obama's 2008 election campaign was "Change."
Three years in, I don't see a lot of change... especially when it comes to Foreign Policy, which was one of Obama's key campaign points.

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:32 pm

Malicious Wraith wrote:QUOTE (Malicious Wraith @ Dec 5 2011, 11:27 PM) I dislike how the big banner for Obama's 2008 election campaign was "Change."
Three years in, I don't see a lot of change... especially when it comes to Foreign Policy, which was one of Obama's key campaign points.

He gave a few good speeches.

But... killer drone warfare x10, Palestine is still screwed with no real pressure put on Israel, War on Terror and War on Drugs are going strong as ever.

You're right, where's the change? The iron fist is in a nicer glove, but it's the same fist.

germloucks · Post by **germloucks** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:09 pm

Obama DID pass the affordable healthcare act, which i doubt Hillary would have been able to do. Lets give to the devil what belongs to the devil.

But outside of that he has been a big disappointment. The worst thing, in my mind, is how he kinda just sat there and took it from Republicans for so long in the name of "bipartisanship" Additionally, he continued bush policies in regards to the Patriot Act and other expansions of Executive powers (Libya, killing that US citizen etc)

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:17 pm

I think in terms of foreign policy, Obama did pretty well by the American people (and it's not like you guys have ever REALLY cared what the rest of the world thinks). They killed Osama, Al-Awlaki, didn't get too deeply involved with the Arab Spring, sent those military advisers to Africa, signed the Kyoto Protocol, wound down Iraq (finally), and generally speaking didn't blow TOO many people up for absolutely no reason. But expecting Obama to be your savior is wishful thinking at best, I mean you guys have "Separation of Powers" after all. If you want an efficient government, elect a dictator.

Politics is recently not what your leaders can do to enact policy decisions, but rather getting the public to go along with their personal policy choices.

It's curious because most people I know don't wake up in the morning and say "oh damn, our debt increased by X millions of dollars today!" Yet the politicians have been feeding this policy of "balancing the budget" for the last couple of years hardcore like so now it's a major hot button issue for the voters. In reality, the fact that the US government has been spending at a deficit for ages doesn't directly affect the average American's livelihood as much as something like tax increases/decreases. Maybe the government SHOULD borrow more to make up for the shortfall in tax revenues. (but this is beside the point)

Similarly with terrorism, drugs, illegal immigration, climate change, whatever. Your candidates usually have a specific platform that the vast majority of voters will cling to and show favor for, but then there's a huge blind spot where these guys will do everything to mislead the general voting public.

Anyway my point is if you want to endorse a candidate, your best bet would be to encourage your fellow Americans to vote more and vote regularly. It may just motivate them to learn more about politics and make up their own mind rather than just listening to the politicians. Presidential elections are a crap shoot in terms of domestic policy anyway, IMO you should elect someone like Obama - half play nice with historical US agitators, half I'm still willing to blow people up if you screw with us. People complaining about lack of change? Maybe you guys should vote in the Congressional elections more then.

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:19 am

I agree with cHrono with respect to Obama on foreign policy - he actually hasn't been half bad. But on the domestic front, he's been abysmal. He passed ridiculous spending packages that did nothing but waste money, he did little to nothing to regulate and hold accountable wall street, and his health care plan was a mess that hopefully gets struck down by the supreme court so we can replace it with something useful.

Camaro · Post by **Camaro** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:22 am

germloucks wrote:QUOTE (germloucks @ Dec 5 2011, 02:09 PM) Obama DID pass the affordable healthcare act, which i doubt Hillary would have been able to do. Lets give to the devil what belongs to the devil.

But outside of that he has been a big disappointment. The worst thing, in my mind, is how he kinda just sat there and took it from Republicans for so long in the name of "bipartisanship" Additionally, he continued bush policies in regards to the Patriot Act and other expansions of Executive powers (Libya, killing that US citizen etc)

Obamacare, in its current form, might do a slight bit of good, but overall is toothless and will not help bend down trend, which is the real drag on healthcare. They shoulda just stolen Switzerland's universal coverage private model... I mean I guess they sorta did as is, but I don't really see it helping very much at all. The only cool thing that comes from it are the public and private exchanges and an acceleration into looking into ACO's (HMO Redux Baby!), and even then those won't do much more than cut down admin costs, which is GREAT, but cutting down on a small fraction of your total costs will yield negligible results as medical inflation continues its rather quick march into oblivion.

Still, ideologically, I believe Federal medical programs to be unconstitutional. This is something that the States should do as they wish. I have no qualms with states doing stuff like this (Massachusetts) or even a public single payer system! But it simply is not within the scope of unabused Federal Powers.

So overall I view him as more or less of accomplishing not a whole lot, HOWEVER, there is one very high praise I must give him. On MOST subjects he has deferred to congress to act. Now many whine and complain that that means he isn't showing leadership, or he doesn't want to act so hes leaving it to a congress which he knows wont actually pass anything... but the President is only supposed to be the EXECUTOR OF CONGRESSES WILL (supposedly closer to the People's will). So for that I give him credit as everyone else bashes him.