We should not let...

[Kumquat]

QUOTE (fwiffo @ Jul 21 2010, 01:39 PM) this sort of sentiment has no place in allegiance and must be condemned. teaching newbies/cdts basic skills does not require you to have the creme de la creme top gun style skills. it takes patience, commitment, determination and a certain apathy towards all those who have nothing better to do but to complain about how things are but have yet to raise one finger to better the situation. change does not come overnight and blaming p1 and notjarvis for the lowering of the avg skill in allegiance seems shortsighted given the short time they've had at their jobs.

if you think you can do better, by all means, show some initiative and try.

Not raise one finger huh. Lez see here...

One of the first intructors in the cadet program and designed both the bombing and HTT program along with answering newb questions.
One of the driving forces behind the Allegiance Wars concept.
Wrote scripts for the Allegiance Expansion that was being worked on by people like Romeo, Fraybin, OldGB, and others before it got aborted, though this was the launching point for of the user made factions including Phoenix and Effix.
I was an @alleg.
Do I really need to go on?

I will also say between me, Romeo, BV, and the others who started the Cadet program we put out the best newbs as compared to the crops put out now days.

[EdDaalleg]

QUOTE (Jimen @ Jul 21 2010, 09:10 PM) The problem I see with achievements is that there's ALREADY problems with people who go out and DM all game long for kills instead of doing what needs to be done. Even badges that involve useful actions, like "get X number of prox kills" or "drop X number of probes", become detrimental when people prioritize the long-term goal of getting those above actually working to win the game. As an addition to normal gameplay, it's great - but in something like Alleg where the game can be quite long and require a rapidly changing set of actions according to the situation, people will toss aside immediate goals to $#@! around with them at the slightest distraction.

You only get badges if you win the match?

[Kumquat]

QUOTE (Clay_Pigeon @ Jul 21 2010, 09:28 PM) I can't be arsed to read every letter of every post, so here's my suggestion. Ignore if someone mentioned it earlier.

Many of our problems are cultural (wait between games, no one wanting to command, people wanting absolute freedom in the teams that they join), but here is one solution that can be implemented in code and will make it easier for newbies to get in game:

Rewrite imbalance code.

Imbalance=1 includes code so that newbies (rank <=4) do not count towards team size, meaning they can join any team at any time, without increasing the team's recognized size. This way, if the non-newbie players are imbalanced, they can be funneled to the stronger team, and likely have a higher chance of encountering vets who have the time to answer their questions.

Imbalance=1+Auto Newbies is a new mode where imbal=1 for non-newbies, and the lobby automatically balances to keep an even # of newbies on both teams. If newbies are 1 Yellow:3 Blue, and a newbie joins blue, s/he is automatically joined to yellow (perhaps with a confirmation prompt, giving them the option to wait in the lobby instead).

This is a quality idea. Make it so. If newbs didn't count against imbalance then there wouldn't be so much hesitation to take them on in a game.

[FIZ]

COULD WE PLEASE IMPLEMENT A SCOUT DEFAULT THAT ISNT USELESS?

FFS. DEFAULT SCOUT SHOULD BE DEFAULT SCOUT, not AMMO AMMO AMMO AMMO AMMO AMMO

[HeavyNoob]

QUOTE (Kumquat @ Jul 21 2010, 11:31 PM) This is a quality idea. Make it so. If newbs didn't count against imbalance then there wouldn't be so much hesitation to take them on in a game.

YESSSS

[Hellsyng]

QUOTE (FIZ @ Jul 21 2010, 10:37 PM) COULD WE PLEASE IMPLEMENT A SCOUT DEFAULT THAT ISNT USELESS?

FFS. DEFAULT SCOUT SHOULD BE DEFAULT SCOUT, not AMMO AMMO AMMO AMMO AMMO AMMO

Lol offtopic

[Clay_Pigeon]

Kumquat approved of my idea and didn't threaten anal rape. That's a double stamp of approval!

[Adept]

The idea of achievements is good. It can't be too hard to code those in. There were some humorous ones done earlier, so I bet we can pull in suitable art right quick when it's ready to be implemeneted.

***

On the bigger issue I think a large part of our problem is being thrown in the deep end right away. Challenge is fun, but absolutely overwhelming challenge tends to be less so. A newbie joining the main faces people with years, sometimes a decade of full PvP in a very complex game. Snowballs and hell come to mind.

Newbie servers are useful, but mostly when somebody is there greeting the newcomers and going through the basics. Unfortunately this is sporadic, despite the best efforts of the @HELP voluneers. When it's done, it tends to work great, and the newbies have a lot of fun shooting other newbies and the helpers who fly around being targets. The other side of the coin is vets not getting a real challenge.

Here's my suggestion. Skill limited servers, with people always having the option to wade further into the deep end.

Novice games: rank 0..7

This would be a working version of the newbie server. Aside form the @Alleg and @HELP members, it's the newbies playground. I'd love to limit the miner and money settings to something sane for these, to prevent rabid insanity. This would let the new guys fight other new guys in an environment where their skill increases actually matter, and they aren't just cannon fodder for the vets.

Intermediate: 0..14

I guess many top vets would call this the voob server. I think even this would be useful. It would serve as the "sidegames" of today. Mediocre commanders get to try their hand in a less high-pressure environment.

Main: enter at your own risk, no holds barred

This is the current main. No punches pulled.

***

Notice that the idea is that you're never forced or required to go on the skill limited server. The options are there so you can have some fun without being repeatedly blown up and/or mocked by those who are years ahead of you in the game. Obviously the goal (for most at least) is to learn to swim in the big boys and girls pool, but this could help you have fun along the way.

[Malicious Wraith]

We don't have enough players to run a sidegame. Back immediately after R4, we used to have active newbie servers, side game, and main game. However, does having "server availability" really have to do a hell of a lot with player retention?

I don't think so.

[Kumquat]

QUOTE (Clay_Pigeon @ Jul 22 2010, 12:23 AM) Kumquat approved of my idea and didn't threaten anal rape. That's a double stamp of approval!

The anal rape is implied.