Sorry, I meant to address the very valid point that Nuke raised about us not having enough players to maintain nine viable squads.
If we share the players out there are enough to keep many more than nine, if we make the cap low enough we could force twenty very small squads (as an example not a proposal).
In the first instance we could make sixty one the limit (the size of the largest squad now), this wouldn't have any effect on the current rosters. It would mean that new guys would have to displace someone in the biggest squad or join a smaller squad.
Then we introduce a rule that somebody inactive for more than X days must be removed from the roster, and the bigger squads wouldn't be allowed to replace them until they drop below the target cap, say fifty or forty or whatever, I don't have the exact figure. The eventual objective would be to have roughly equal numbers of players in each squad, and a chance for the currently weaker squads to pick up the star/good/capable players emerging from the cadet course, rather than watching them disappear into one of the currently top of the pile groups.
So in summary, no enforced removal, except of inactives, a phased introduction and genuine competition for the new/returning players.
Edit# Obviously important players from a squad's past, BaronWaste/Cy4/Pierre/Eric1020/ElHofi etc. would remain on the rosters if desired, if these guys ever wanted to return and play a one off or even return to the game, it would be a bad job if we weren't flexible enough to accomodate them.
Player cap
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Duckwarrior
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: la Grande-Bretagne
Last edited by Duckwarrior on Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy.
edit: I kind of find the holding slots for players who leave not a big deal, and went for the strident tone. No matter Im straining at gnats. I dont want to derail the discussion vs feeling any different is all
Last edited by MrChaos on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ssssh
Crazy suggestion:
Manage recruiting through a neutral board. The board would attempt to encourage balance and can counsel about the style of each squad and the disadvantages of joining a team that has to bench many players on Sundays. Also they can put a penalty on squads handpicking/stealing players by sending better recruits to the other squads.
Manage recruiting through a neutral board. The board would attempt to encourage balance and can counsel about the style of each squad and the disadvantages of joining a team that has to bench many players on Sundays. Also they can put a penalty on squads handpicking/stealing players by sending better recruits to the other squads.
Last edited by SpaceJunk on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SpaceJunk wrote:QUOTE (SpaceJunk @ Apr 24 2010, 08:28 AM) Crazy suggestion:
Manage recruiting through a neutral board. The board would attempt to encourage balance and can counsel about the style of each squad and the disadvantages of joining a team that has to bench many players on Sundays. Also they can put a penalty on squads handpicking/stealing players by sending better recruits to the other squads.
You mean like a senate?
Please watch full vid for my point.
Last edited by TeeJ on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Making anyone, join anything, even if you pay them, is so filled with problems it requires lawyers. Without money, its unworkable
Deciding on a future players worth, even with hordes of "experts" is pretty dicey. See any professional draft anywhere. Again they go cause they are paid.
Asking people in a competitve environment to voluntarily forego their advantage and quietly slip back into the goo... aint going to work... unless all do it
Even minor rules cause pitch forks and torches, see the ongoing "keys" thread for a shiney example, imagine if some group decided about who goes where
Deciding on a future players worth, even with hordes of "experts" is pretty dicey. See any professional draft anywhere. Again they go cause they are paid.
Asking people in a competitve environment to voluntarily forego their advantage and quietly slip back into the goo... aint going to work... unless all do it
Even minor rules cause pitch forks and torches, see the ongoing "keys" thread for a shiney example, imagine if some group decided about who goes where
Last edited by MrChaos on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ssssh
You know, one thing I would like to point out is that I've seen vets from squads be more than willing to share a few tips with members of others. I've never had any resistance when I have spoken to other squad rep's regarding insight for improvement, whether following an SG, or just in general.
This, and efforts from squads looking to improve, as opposed to just subjecting themselves to the wolves in Main's Noat, or threads that turn into pissing matches seems to pay off. Hell, I've seen squads work together on many occasions to increase competitive gameplay.
Another issue may be that when people get "constructive criticism" in-game at pugland, they only react to the delivery and not the message. Defensiveness turns to hostility, which in turn feeds trolls. Nothing about being carebears, imo, because that can to an extent be pretty nauseating. I've just never had any problems when I've asked questions or for help from any member of any squad.
I agree that this is more internal issues with squads, and maybe a lack of willingness, or lack of knowledge that people who are good at the game are most times willing to help. Even if the help comes in the form of "You suck!", rather than going into a rage...take the time to ask what the mistake was and then listen to the answer.
I think when a pilot see's a squad making efforts to improve, they are much more willing to not only maybe assist in one way or another, but even have a bit more respect for the squad. If I get all butt-hurt every time someone gives me a bit of harsh advice, and then react as if they just talked about my mom (even though that's sometimes the method of delivery) then nobody is gonna want to lend a hand. If I show that I am making an effort to shake of some of the "suck", I don't have to be perfect and still avoid a lot of the flack.
Yeah...lower ranked squads catch a lot of @#(!, and it certainly can impact their level of morale, but it can also be a form of motivation to learn. Maturity helps. That, and knowing who is approachable and who isn't. I've stuck my hand out there to top squads in the past without knowing whether I'd have any fingers left when I pulled my hand back, but so far my hand is in tact. It also helped me see those squads and specific members in a different way.
If this post seems too warm and fuzzy, it's only because I wanted my message to heard. If more hate is needed, then $#@! YOU ALL!
This, and efforts from squads looking to improve, as opposed to just subjecting themselves to the wolves in Main's Noat, or threads that turn into pissing matches seems to pay off. Hell, I've seen squads work together on many occasions to increase competitive gameplay.
Another issue may be that when people get "constructive criticism" in-game at pugland, they only react to the delivery and not the message. Defensiveness turns to hostility, which in turn feeds trolls. Nothing about being carebears, imo, because that can to an extent be pretty nauseating. I've just never had any problems when I've asked questions or for help from any member of any squad.
I agree that this is more internal issues with squads, and maybe a lack of willingness, or lack of knowledge that people who are good at the game are most times willing to help. Even if the help comes in the form of "You suck!", rather than going into a rage...take the time to ask what the mistake was and then listen to the answer.
I think when a pilot see's a squad making efforts to improve, they are much more willing to not only maybe assist in one way or another, but even have a bit more respect for the squad. If I get all butt-hurt every time someone gives me a bit of harsh advice, and then react as if they just talked about my mom (even though that's sometimes the method of delivery) then nobody is gonna want to lend a hand. If I show that I am making an effort to shake of some of the "suck", I don't have to be perfect and still avoid a lot of the flack.
Yeah...lower ranked squads catch a lot of @#(!, and it certainly can impact their level of morale, but it can also be a form of motivation to learn. Maturity helps. That, and knowing who is approachable and who isn't. I've stuck my hand out there to top squads in the past without knowing whether I'd have any fingers left when I pulled my hand back, but so far my hand is in tact. It also helped me see those squads and specific members in a different way.
If this post seems too warm and fuzzy, it's only because I wanted my message to heard. If more hate is needed, then $#@! YOU ALL!
Last edited by TeeJ on Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
errrr I completely mistook the person so I cant use that stfu
let me try again in a moment
if you think its only an unwilliness to grow, or hard work ask any of the other smaller squads. Sure you can spend upwards of a year to regrow, but it drives out people who don't want to have a hot poker shoved up their ass week after week. Ryj whined and bitched about every new squad not because he was being big hearted. I offer the alternative he was worried about losing more people and his squad dying on him. Ironicly it worked out for... except maybe the MW thing and squad cohesion... where was I?
Oh yeah. See its not try harder, give me some awesome ass tips sometimes its simply you cant get competitve if you arent competitve... even semi competitve tends to be a black hole of losing players to the other more competitive squads. Im pretty sure its lead to numerous "oh @#(! are we about to go die speech" and burned out leadership. Its not fair to dismiss their efforts so cavliarly
The current size of the community can not sustain nine healthy competitve squads given the current realities. No one wants to limit the squad size
than my guess is you are going to lose three as viable show ten to play squads... and two others arent exactly @#(!ting flowers from their bums but will make over the corpses of the others.
ok now Ive gone ragey here, it was the dismissing the obvious because someone the less successful squads wont man up and get better. Ive said my piece sensiblely and now loudly to a guy who "gets" its just a different approach. So Ive had my fun and thanks for listening
let me try again in a moment
if you think its only an unwilliness to grow, or hard work ask any of the other smaller squads. Sure you can spend upwards of a year to regrow, but it drives out people who don't want to have a hot poker shoved up their ass week after week. Ryj whined and bitched about every new squad not because he was being big hearted. I offer the alternative he was worried about losing more people and his squad dying on him. Ironicly it worked out for... except maybe the MW thing and squad cohesion... where was I?
Oh yeah. See its not try harder, give me some awesome ass tips sometimes its simply you cant get competitve if you arent competitve... even semi competitve tends to be a black hole of losing players to the other more competitive squads. Im pretty sure its lead to numerous "oh @#(! are we about to go die speech" and burned out leadership. Its not fair to dismiss their efforts so cavliarly
The current size of the community can not sustain nine healthy competitve squads given the current realities. No one wants to limit the squad size
than my guess is you are going to lose three as viable show ten to play squads... and two others arent exactly @#(!ting flowers from their bums but will make over the corpses of the others.ok now Ive gone ragey here, it was the dismissing the obvious because someone the less successful squads wont man up and get better. Ive said my piece sensiblely and now loudly to a guy who "gets" its just a different approach. So Ive had my fun and thanks for listening
Last edited by MrChaos on Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ssssh
and 
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