Heavy Troop Transports

[spideycw]

We once sent 2 ints in to emp one of RT's ops before nerve gassing it with a SB. The ints were shot at the whole time but never died because - boost strafing ints yo. Emp cannon is definitely up for a change (not that it directly impacts this thread) and both Das and Xertov has some nifty ideas on perking them.

Carry on with ya htt talk

[zombywoof]

I'd like to point out that part of the reason for figbees (at least initially, from what I understand) is that when you get gat3 and df3 up for sup, and mini3 up for exp, you end up in a situation where... nothing happens.

"Oh look, HTT. We all rip in and spike it."

"Oh look, they tried to TP2 regular bomb us. We all boost out and spike it."

Part of the problem would be resolved by PPs being removed because that would make it harder to stop SBs, but one thing that must be looked at isn't just the careful balance between sup, tac, and exp, but the careful balance between offense and defense.

It is my belief that if you have two equal teams, the team on offense should win. That should be the end goal of balancing Allegiance: the fundamental mantra of "If two equal teams are playing, then the winning team should be the one that is attacking." Techs like mini3, df3/gat3, prox3, minepack2, hunter3, and pulse probes (to name a few) are contrary to this. Techs like Figbees, Galvs + Heavy Booster, SBs, Heavy Cloak + HTTs, TF Adv Scouts, XRM, and Nan2 are in concordance with this.*

*I'm not saying that these techs are organized in a "good for allegiance" "bad for allegiance" manner, I'm saying that the first techs push games to stalemates while the latter techs favor the aggressive team by far.

So here's my opinion: we should try to perk/nerf the end games of the three tech paths until they are at a point where they are reasonably likely to succeed assuming you're attacking a team of equal skill.

To me that means probably perking HTTs a little (up the hull, up the agility and mass, maybe touch the speed up a bit... like OMB said, AP HTTs are great, but AP is GT's thing), probably nerfing figbees a fair amount (give them an "AB .5" missile would effectively double the number of figbees needed for a "guaranteed run"), and probably leaving SBs right the $#@! where they are.

I also disagree with Drizzo at great personal risk: Getting rid of PPs shouldn't mean we nerf SBs. The goddamn things have a sig of 100% already, and caltrop/tower is often enough to stop them from getting in if your pilots aren't tarded (i.e., "Hmm, an SF is trying to kill that tower, I bet he's clearing for an SB" *boosts over*) If you're really paranoid about it camp the important alephs to your techbase sector. SBs aren't considered overpowered against Sup (and seriously no one buys sensor GAs... I remember having to fight my com tooth and nail to buy us sensor GAs to turn our PPs from 5k probes to 6.2k probes. Instead he wanted to buy us a tac... even though we had heavy ints and adv figs) from anything that I've heard, and if sup can deal with SBs, so can exp. As for whether or not we should nerf/dump PPs? No opinion here as of yet (not enough info), but if we do I don't think it necessarily means SBs have to be nerfed.

[Adept]

QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Mar 11 2010, 11:23 AM) ...probably nerfing figbees a fair amount (give them an "AB .5" missile would effectively double the number of figbees needed for a "guaranteed run")

Currently figbee runs fail significantly often, or succeed with the last figbee alive. Doubling the number needed is way overkill.

Removal of Cruise Booster should slow them down nicely.

[Jimen]

Why in the hell would we nerf figbees? They're already nearly useless without tp2, and I'd say a figbee swarm is a perfectly fair punishment for anyone who lets a sup team push a base into their sector. I just dropped a hint about the overpowered part of "tp2 figbee runs", let's see who's smart enough to find it! And P1, you sure did take a roundabout way of trying to say "endgame tech should beat adv tech", which it should.

100% is fairly stealthy; not perfectly stealthy, but in conjunction with sig cloak, it's enough to get done what needs to be done and set up a sb 3k from a base with basically no real chance of being found short of 3-4 adv scouts looking for it or one person PPing the sector. I make no claims to how that affects SB power, but there's no question that removing PPs is going to boost it one hell of a lot, and nerfs would then be necessary to maintain the current balance and make SBs mortal again.

[Vortrog]

Isnt defensive ramming the main enemy of a HTT run? Wouldnt upping MASS and (to a more sensitive consideration) speed fix this drama as Exp is supposed to be IN YOUR FACE ASSAULTS and assimilation?
Hull up could be made to counter dumbspiking somewhat by Sup teams, but i reckon its all about forcecapping and 'We Brake for Nobody'

mass although it is a perk, it is not a serious one. Or is it?

[MashMellows]

QUOTE (Adept @ Mar 11 2010, 07:13 PM) Currently figbee runs fail significantly often, or succeed with the last figbee alive. Doubling the number needed is way overkill.

Removal of Cruise Booster should slow them down nicely.

Removal of Cruise Boosters would kill FBs permanently. No one would use Sup FBs as an end-game tech path.

[pkk]

QUOTE (Vortrog @ Mar 11 2010, 11:05 PM) Hull up could be made to counter dumbspiking somewhat by Sup teams, but i reckon its all about forcecapping and 'We Brake for Nobody'

Dumb spike hurts HTTs not that much like against bombers, because Figs have no time to line up and most of the dumbs will miss.

[Jimen]

QUOTE (Vortrog @ Mar 11 2010, 05:05 PM) Isnt defensive ramming the main enemy of a HTT run? Wouldnt upping MASS and (to a more sensitive consideration) speed fix this drama as Exp is supposed to be IN YOUR FACE ASSAULTS and assimilation?
Hull up could be made to counter dumbspiking somewhat by Sup teams, but i reckon its all about forcecapping and 'We Brake for Nobody'

mass although it is a perk, it is not a serious one. Or is it?

The problem is that people will cry and moan about a faction's uniqueness (in this case, GT's AP HTTs) being encroached upon if other HTTs get a similar perk. It seems pretty widely agreed on that AP HTTs are very good and have about the same level of effectiveness that HTTs should have...but even though it's proven itself to be effective, people feel that we can't do the same thing to other HTTs because then GT Exp wouldn't be a special unique flower anymore. Therefore rather than buffing all HTTs to the effectiveness of AP HTTs and thinking up a new upgrade for GT Exp, we're leaving GT as it is and trying to think up some other different way to boost every other HTT...never mind that the only stats that really matter on a HTT are sig and mass, but doing anything to change either of those will make people throw tantrums because we're nerfing their precious Bios/GT.


QUOTE (pkk)Dumb spike hurts HTTs not that much like against bombers, because Figs have no time to line up and most of the dumbs will miss.[/quote]
Wait wait wait. Are you saying that dumb spike doesn't really hurt bombers or HTTs because all the dumbs will miss? Is that the thing that you are saying? Are you serious?

[pkk]

QUOTE (Jimen @ Mar 11 2010, 11:20 PM) Wait wait wait. Are you saying that dumb spike doesn't really hurt bombers or HTTs because all the dumbs will miss? Is that the thing that you are saying? Are you serious?

Only HTTs:
HTT gets spottedFigs launch from base or rip inFigs have to line up, so dumbs will hit, but loose time doing that

Seriously, have you ever seen a moving Bomber/HTT getting dumb spiked from a different direction than from front (or behind)?

[DasSmiter]

lt. booster 2 is functionally the same thing as cruise booster and is also mountable by figbees. Removing cruise booster would not kill FB

Thanks and good day