Bios Fighter Changes

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:12 pm

Lots of discussion about Bios lately. Some changes that may make them a bit more balanced

Xeretov wrote:QUOTE (Xeretov @ Oct 1 2009, 03:30 PM) Current rules (CC_06):

All Bios fighters can drop Prox or Minepack.

Bios gets prox 1 at the start, but not minepack.

Bios does also get free minepack 1, so long as it has a sup.

What spidey is asking: Should basic Bios fighters be able to drop prox or no?

And should Bios get minepack 1 at the start so their basic fighters can drop that instead of prox?

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:22 pm

Yes to size increase, no to minepacks.

I'd rather have them dropping prox mines then minepacks tbh. (Don't they have the option of dropping both at the start right now anyway or is it when the sup is built that free mine packs are granted?)

Them dropping minepacks is an indirect buff to anyone that goes Sup vs BIOS. (Since they can just loot it instead of buy it)

juckto · Post by **juckto** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:09 pm

I thought all basic figs could use minepacks? So that would change the option to either:

Should bios figs not be able to drop prox?
or
Should bios get minepacks at the beginning of the game (as opposed to free when they get a sup)?

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:14 pm

juckto wrote:QUOTE (juckto @ Oct 1 2009, 03:09 PM) I thought all basic figs could use minepacks? So that would change the option to either:

Basic bios fighters mount only prox (talking no sup)

Xeretov · Post by **Xeretov** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:30 pm

Current rules (CC_06):

All Bios fighters can drop Prox or Minepack.

Bios gets prox 1 at the start, but not minepack.

Bios does also get free minepack 1, so long as it has a sup.

What spidey is asking: Should basic Bios fighters be able to drop prox or no?

And should Bios get minepack 1 at the start so their basic fighters can drop that instead of prox?

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:53 pm

i'd say increase the size and take away free mp1 from sup. Removing their ability to drop prox early on leaves them way open to bomb rushes, but i feel that free mp1 is kinda unnecessary, considering in 10 min you can have mp2 cheese

DareDevil · Post by **DareDevil** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:26 pm

Xeretov wrote:QUOTE (Xeretov @ Oct 1 2009, 02:30 PM) What spidey is asking: Should basic Bios fighters be able to drop prox or no?

And should Bios get minepack 1 at the start so their basic fighters can drop that instead of prox?

Why do you need scouts to camp alephs if figs can boost there faster AND drop proxes, particularly prox2 or 3 and still have 2 guns and more missiles hull etc.??? Even boosting belter scouts can't mount 2 guns and 4 missiles a rack. Something's wrong when you take a main benefit of scouts and give it to Basic figs.

Prox last so long that they give BIOS BASIC figs outstanding defense that no other sup fighter has. Prox are more effective than mine packs because they are wider and last longer than mine packs that they really take the balance away from the game. Proxes are so awesome on a fig that I always configure my BIOS fig with proxes instead of mine packs when we go sup.

Only ADV SUP paid figs (Lux and Omnis) can drop proxes (I think thats a perk for the money cause the last so long and are so wide). Bios figs used to get mine packs once a sup was purchased. Now they get a better weapon from the start for the whole game even if the loose their sup. That's screwed up.

When Noir added it, it was an effort to make BIOS more competitive long before they were given short constructor times. The effort was to give them a chance to live long enough to get some tech in. Now the live relatively easily AND the cons go up fast, effectively reducing research times on the tech bases. He said he'd see how it went and would scale it back if needed. He's gone, now we got 60 sec build times and prox on basic figs...

Bottom line is BIOS has awesome defense to start off with from these basic figs dropping prox: try bombing a well placed tele and you'll find boosting fighters getting in position fast enough to drop a wall of prox that LASTS while they nail the bomber, not just one or maybe 2 scouts desperately trying to get up to speed and in position to drop in front of the bomber. Mine packs are much harder to time and use (smaller area and time) so they aren't nearly as effective overall.

So with that great early defense you have a relative easy road to the usual cheap BIOS uberness of their adv tech/free base upgrades. That faction that has a huge advantage over others that basically resort to bomber/SY rushing and/or praying.

My vote is BIOS figs get only mine packs (free) with a sup until adv figs. Give Adv figs the option of minepacks or prox. See how that goes, then think about any other changes.
--DD

dingusdangus · Post by **dingusdangus** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:42 pm

I think an important question to answer with regards to every proposed change on CC is whether or not you are trying to balance for SGs or for PUGS. I have admittedly played very few SGs, but it would seem that bios are in no way cheese. In PUGs, however, my experience is that they win a disproportionate number of games. Without a clear understanding of your goals, it is hard to vote

Just my opinion.

*unrelated side note* Could "I don't care" be changed to "I dont know" in future polls. I know it is a mostly insignificant change, but I think ti better represents the people who choose that option. It might also encourage people who are not informed enough to vote to choose it instead of picking randomly.

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:55 pm

dingusdangus wrote:QUOTE (dingusdangus @ Oct 1 2009, 05:42 PM) I think an important question to answer with regards to every proposed change on CC is whether or not you are trying to balance for SGs or for PUGS. I have admittedly played very few SGs, but it would seem that bios are in no way cheese. In PUGs, however, my experience is that they win a disproportionate number of games. Without a clear understanding of your goals, it is hard to vote

Just my opinion.

*unrelated side note* Could "I don't care" be changed to "I dont know" in future polls. I know it is a mostly insignificant change, but I think ti better represents the people who choose that option. It might also encourage people who are not informed enough to vote to choose it instead of picking randomly.

Pick up games.

Also you can always ask questions before voting - so you can make an informed decision

TurkeyXIII · Post by **TurkeyXIII** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:51 am

Where's the option for 'can't mount prox AND no free minepacks'?