I especially like the carriers being in SY, and the changes to turrets. My dislike of Long Toms melts away if it's a battleship only gun. This way the caps would have much more character.
Shipyard & CC_07
IBs suggestions are awesome
I especially like the carriers being in SY, and the changes to turrets. My dislike of Long Toms melts away if it's a battleship only gun. This way the caps would have much more character.
I especially like the carriers being in SY, and the changes to turrets. My dislike of Long Toms melts away if it's a battleship only gun. This way the caps would have much more character.
Last edited by Adept on Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<bp|> Maybe when I grow up I can be a troll like PsycH
<bp|> or an obsessive compulsive paladin of law like Adept
I remembered another interesting thing from the Alleg+ core.
Helium Yield GAs were under shipyard instead of exp. That would make sense to me, as Exp is actually a pretty cheap tech path, but going SY requires lot of money. If one would combine this with basic level SY being just a regular techbase when it comes to cost, I'm sure we'd see more SY and low level caps used. More play with SY leads to more data for balancing it too.
PS. still in love with IB's suggestion.
/edit PKK's suggestion below is also golden. I have no idea why SY was changed to such a strange beast as it is now.
Helium Yield GAs were under shipyard instead of exp. That would make sense to me, as Exp is actually a pretty cheap tech path, but going SY requires lot of money. If one would combine this with basic level SY being just a regular techbase when it comes to cost, I'm sure we'd see more SY and low level caps used. More play with SY leads to more data for balancing it too.
PS. still in love with IB's suggestion.
/edit PKK's suggestion below is also golden. I have no idea why SY was changed to such a strange beast as it is now.
Last edited by Adept on Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<bp|> Maybe when I grow up I can be a troll like PsycH
<bp|> or an obsessive compulsive paladin of law like Adept
Easiest way to fix SY is going back to MS concept.
Research stuff you need instand researching all shipclasses.
Suggestion:
Shipyard (Corvette (small large shield) for free, IC may needs to buy them without techbase)
Carrier, small large shield (5k)Missile Frigate, carries medium large shield (10k)Missiles upgrade (enables MK2 msl tech) (10k)Gun upgrade (Sky2, Lancer 2, ...) (10k)Shield upgrade (Large Shield Mk2 in different sizes (hp, recharge) for different ship classes) (10k)GA: Ship Speed 1 (2k)Drydock (25k)
Cruiser, carries greatest large shield (10k)Devestator, carries medium large shield (5k)Destroyer, carries small large shield (5k)Assault Ship, carries small large shield (10k)Missiles upgrade: enables MK3 msl tech (10k)Gun upgrade: Sky3, Lancer 3, Skyripper, ... (10k)Shield upgrade: Large Shield Mk3 in different sizes (hp, recharge) for different ship classes (10k)GA: Ship Speed 2 (2.5k)
Research stuff you need instand researching all shipclasses.
Suggestion:
Shipyard (Corvette (small large shield) for free, IC may needs to buy them without techbase)
Carrier, small large shield (5k)Missile Frigate, carries medium large shield (10k)Missiles upgrade (enables MK2 msl tech) (10k)Gun upgrade (Sky2, Lancer 2, ...) (10k)Shield upgrade (Large Shield Mk2 in different sizes (hp, recharge) for different ship classes) (10k)GA: Ship Speed 1 (2k)Drydock (25k)
Cruiser, carries greatest large shield (10k)Devestator, carries medium large shield (5k)Destroyer, carries small large shield (5k)Assault Ship, carries small large shield (10k)Missiles upgrade: enables MK3 msl tech (10k)Gun upgrade: Sky3, Lancer 3, Skyripper, ... (10k)Shield upgrade: Large Shield Mk3 in different sizes (hp, recharge) for different ship classes (10k)GA: Ship Speed 2 (2.5k)
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
Moving both He3 yield/speed to sy sounds interesting given the expense of sy so seems the place to put them. Of course when people get sy most seem to be tac or sup as primary tech path, so in a way it also makes sense to leave it in exp, not sure the best course.Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ Aug 1 2009, 04:22 PM) Helium Yield (Speed) GAs were under shipyard instead of exp.
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Q: Should shipyard / drydock have the hull/shields/scan of garr/starbase or should it remain as is like exp/tac/sup, or inbetween?
Currently;
Garrison; Hull- 20,000. Shield- 10,000. Scan- 3,600. Cost- $20,000.
Starbase; Hull- 25,000. Shield- 15,000. Scan- 4,500. Cost- $20,000.
Basic Tech; Hull- 13,333. Shield- 6,666. Scan- 2,400. Cost- $10,000.
Adv Tech; Hull- 20,000. Shield- 10,000. Scan- 3,000. Cost- $10,000.
Shipyard; Hull- 13,333. Shield- 6,666. Scan- 2,400. Cost- $15,000.
Drydock; Hull- 20,000. Shield- 10,000. Scan- 3,000. Cost- $15,000.
Suggestion;
Shipyard; Hull- 17,500. Shield- 8,333. Scan- 3,000. Cost- $15,000.
Drydock; Hull- 22,500. Shield- 12,500. Scan- 3,600. Cost- $15,000.
Rationale; Well it makes sense, based solely on cost comparison the suggestion above puts the hull/shield/scan at an appropriate level based on the cost of the base, I didn't factor in the cost to upgrade as it wasn't factored in before, so to keep it within the scope of the original it was based on the same relative cost. Taking it one step further for thematic and logical reason it seems to me that the sy/ddock is more of a target and often more of a crux to the team that builds it than a standard tech base, sure in essence the tech base is more useful though frankly comms are more than likely over investing and over relying on the sy/ddock anyway so the loss is more felt. Which brings the last point, relevance, it's very expensive to go for capships, even for the smallest of uses it's still going to be a 30k-50k investment to get a couple usefule vettes, much more costly to go beyond that- the base should be at least comparable in it's defensive capability for it's cost of the con at $15k.
Currently;
Garrison; Hull- 20,000. Shield- 10,000. Scan- 3,600. Cost- $20,000.
Starbase; Hull- 25,000. Shield- 15,000. Scan- 4,500. Cost- $20,000.
Basic Tech; Hull- 13,333. Shield- 6,666. Scan- 2,400. Cost- $10,000.
Adv Tech; Hull- 20,000. Shield- 10,000. Scan- 3,000. Cost- $10,000.
Shipyard; Hull- 13,333. Shield- 6,666. Scan- 2,400. Cost- $15,000.
Drydock; Hull- 20,000. Shield- 10,000. Scan- 3,000. Cost- $15,000.
Suggestion;
Shipyard; Hull- 17,500. Shield- 8,333. Scan- 3,000. Cost- $15,000.
Drydock; Hull- 22,500. Shield- 12,500. Scan- 3,600. Cost- $15,000.
Rationale; Well it makes sense, based solely on cost comparison the suggestion above puts the hull/shield/scan at an appropriate level based on the cost of the base, I didn't factor in the cost to upgrade as it wasn't factored in before, so to keep it within the scope of the original it was based on the same relative cost. Taking it one step further for thematic and logical reason it seems to me that the sy/ddock is more of a target and often more of a crux to the team that builds it than a standard tech base, sure in essence the tech base is more useful though frankly comms are more than likely over investing and over relying on the sy/ddock anyway so the loss is more felt. Which brings the last point, relevance, it's very expensive to go for capships, even for the smallest of uses it's still going to be a 30k-50k investment to get a couple usefule vettes, much more costly to go beyond that- the base should be at least comparable in it's defensive capability for it's cost of the con at $15k.
n.b. I may not see a forum post replied to me or a pm sent to me for weeks and weeks...
This worked well, and would serve as a very solid starting point for any reform that we seek to dopkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Aug 1 2009, 11:44 AM) Easiest way to fix SY is going back to MS concept.
Research stuff you need instand researching all shipclasses.
Suggestion:
Shipyard (Corvette (small large shield) for free, IC may needs to buy them without techbase)
Carrier, small large shield (5k)Missile Frigate, carries medium large shield (10k)Missiles upgrade (enables MK2 msl tech) (10k)Gun upgrade (Sky2, Lancer 2, ...) (10k)Shield upgrade (Large Shield Mk2 in different sizes (hp, recharge) for different ship classes) (10k)GA: Ship Speed 1 (2k)Drydock (25k)
Cruiser, carries greatest large shield (10k)Devestator, carries medium large shield (5k)Destroyer, carries small large shield (5k)Assault Ship, carries small large shield (10k)Missiles upgrade: enables MK3 msl tech (10k)Gun upgrade: Sky3, Lancer 3, Skyripper, ... (10k)Shield upgrade: Large Shield Mk3 in different sizes (hp, recharge) for different ship classes (10k)GA: Ship Speed 2 (2.5k)
This, of course, can change. You can change what rocks the SY is required to have - be it He3, generic, Si, C, U, or any combination of multiple ones.Vlymoxyd wrote:QUOTE (Vlymoxyd @ Aug 2 2009, 11:01 PM) Padre, I think what you suggested makes some sense, but SY can build on generic rocks instead of tech bases. It is a huge advantage. SY would become an even better base to push, particularly vs SBs.
Why yes, yes I am!KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 3 2009, 01:11 PM) wow you are all so conservative , you're all republicans or what ?
QUOTE try think out-of-box may by ? invent new stuff and test them in real games (because saying this or that won't work 'on paper' is theorist crap).[/quote]
I'm all for out-of-the-box thinking but it has be guided by some sort of narrative for how SY should fit into the game. Otherwise it's just randomly twidling knobs and will be just as successful as if you walked into the cockpit of a flying A330 and starting yanking levers.
I think the narrative should be "super-expensive endgame tech". I would:
Tie SY con to adv techbase.Light class = freighters, corvs, devs (pure anti-capital ship, cannot kill bases and ineffective against fighters. this makes going SY the best counter against the other team going SY).Med class = frigates, assault ships, attack carriers.Tie drydock to endgame tech (figbees, sbs, or htts).Drydock = cruiser, destroyers (both w/ superheavy hull -- essentially cruisers are as hard to kill as a battlecruiser)Nerf nukes (4 for adv tech, 5 to kill a starbase) and reduce nukes to one-per-rack. Cruisers cannot kill multiple bases in one sortie without the assistance of a freighter.Move yield to SY (you're gonna need it).
Globemaster_III wrote:QUOTE (Globemaster_III @ Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM) as you know i think very little of cashto, cashto alway a flying low pilot, he alway flying a trainer airplane and he rented