Shipyard & CC_07
On that note, can we have a moratorium on proposals without any explanation of what the change seeks to accomplish? What's the greater theme of SY that you'd like to see (support role only? standalone techpath? expensive end-game tech? other?). Explain your reasoning why. How does your change fit that theme? Or, at the very least, how does your change enable a novel gameplay mechanic?
Globemaster_III wrote:QUOTE (Globemaster_III @ Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM) as you know i think very little of cashto, cashto alway a flying low pilot, he alway flying a trainer airplane and he rented
It's called XRM Cruise Misslie and is reseachable in SY since MS days?!Adaven wrote:QUOTE (Adaven @ Jul 26 2009, 08:33 AM) -Like others said, Un-Nerf XRM and move it to SY, and make it the default missle for frigates. I realize you guys would prefer to not muck around with the other tech trees atm, but XRM has been a problem child for a while now, and F/B's should be able to pick up the slack. The longer range seems more in theme with SY, and it always bothered me that frigates couldn't mount bomber missles. It also adds to your concept of SY as supporting the other Techs, because Heavy Bombers could still access if you had them. And Un-Nerfing XRM in this case wouldn't re-break sup, because of the added cost/time needed to get SY.
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
[I've spent a few weeks researching/trying out SY related stuff, sorry about posting my ideas in several parts like this. This should wrap it up.]
Remove the nerfed adv sup XRM, and allow heavy bombers to mount XRM cruise. That way, if you want to do the traditional long range TP2 XRM drop you need basic level SY and Starbase.
I'd like the non-base-killing caps to be significantly cheaper. The Alleg+ version of the assault carrier (super carrier) with no guns for the pilot and just one turret is a nice idea. At the moment an ass carrier has the same turret firepower as a vette. I'd at least take away one of the turrets.
I'd put the gunship back into the garrison instead of starbase, so it's no longer just bios tech, and tie the mini SCs to shipyard, so that without SY gunships only get autocannons. Alternatively I'd make the gunship a free ship under SY, with just one full size skycap turret.
Having the anti cap torps be mountable by bombers and figbees also sounds like an excellent idea. It gives nice synergy with various tech's. If you are too low on money and down the tech tree to get destroyers, you could camp an aleph with a couple of torpedo armed bombers.
Remove the nerfed adv sup XRM, and allow heavy bombers to mount XRM cruise. That way, if you want to do the traditional long range TP2 XRM drop you need basic level SY and Starbase.
I'd like the non-base-killing caps to be significantly cheaper. The Alleg+ version of the assault carrier (super carrier) with no guns for the pilot and just one turret is a nice idea. At the moment an ass carrier has the same turret firepower as a vette. I'd at least take away one of the turrets.
I'd put the gunship back into the garrison instead of starbase, so it's no longer just bios tech, and tie the mini SCs to shipyard, so that without SY gunships only get autocannons. Alternatively I'd make the gunship a free ship under SY, with just one full size skycap turret.
Having the anti cap torps be mountable by bombers and figbees also sounds like an excellent idea. It gives nice synergy with various tech's. If you are too low on money and down the tech tree to get destroyers, you could camp an aleph with a couple of torpedo armed bombers.
<bp|> Maybe when I grow up I can be a troll like PsycH
<bp|> or an obsessive compulsive paladin of law like Adept
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 27 2009, 10:34 AM) It's called XRM Cruise Misslie and is reseachable in SY since MS days?!
Exactly, and no one ever bought it because it cost more money, and the extra range was useless when they travel so slow that anyone can shoot them down. Stealing the XRM AB's from sup (and making them free) would be a better fit, imo.
[img]http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/st ... erator.gif" alt="IPB Image">
<img src="http://adaven6x7.googlepages.com/PKBanner3copy.png[/img]
<img src="http://adaven6x7.googlepages.com/PKBanner3copy.png[/img]
So SY would get weak, long range XRM's and basic ABs? Or would you still want them to have nukes?Adaven wrote:QUOTE (Adaven @ Jul 28 2009, 08:39 AM) Exactly, and no one ever bought it because it cost more money, and the extra range was useless when they travel so slow that anyone can shoot them down. Stealing the XRM AB's from sup (and making them free) would be a better fit, imo.
Bases die so quick even to AB1, that nukes seem unnecessary if the caps just have a large enough AB rack.
<bp|> Maybe when I grow up I can be a troll like PsycH
<bp|> or an obsessive compulsive paladin of law like Adept
For GS, I'm not sure what's the best solution, I lean quite a bit to not making them a part of shipyard. Is there even a majority of people that desire any change at all to GS? If so then sure, let's mix things up a bit. I'd favour reducing their ship cost to $50 as it's a minor cost and I always disliked the $1 as newbies still tended to spam requests and I think $50 is enough of an impact that they likely wouldn't. GS are almost exclusively used by Bios, and it would be nice to see them occasionally used by other factions in a useful fashion, specifically interesting would be TF and Giga possibly... as to how to get them used more often, the only real way I think would be too move them to Garrison from Starbase.
Is moving GS to Garrison a great idea, well unless GS had other changes- probably not.
One simple change if moved would be to only give GS access to a pilot AC and turret SC if there was a starbase. <- My preference.
Other ideas about lt/hvy GS, or mini-SC (I think the mini-SC has possibilities to think on) or not, are interesting though are more of a change, which is not a bad thing if people like the ideas. Possibly increasing the research cost (or not) if moved to Garrison is another option. Tying GS to SY somehow is also interesting, if GS are moved to Garrison for research though and not SY, you could then tie access to the turret and instead of allowing AC you could also grant SC.
=-=
For Giga and Belt SY while it would be alright to give them standard access to shipyard, I thought perhaps just add one specialized ship for super heavy class for them.
The reason being is first it would be less of a change though still would fill their need, and second that it tries to stay with their themes.
Gigacorp Luxury Battleship;
A sleak luxury battleship to bring Gigacorp into the super heavy class of capital ships. Compared to most capships it's average in most respects. Noteably it has a small ripcord receiver (while being slow and costly itself to rip) and the ability to drop mines and probes of all kinds, it also serves as a minor hybrid of an assault ship to some extent by being much stealthier than most capships while being able to mount heavy cloak and having a slight perk to it's scan range and speed.
I see this ship as having more survivability similar to that of a lxy cruiser over a cruiser, same for it's weapons- and to make the pilot a real happy camper and knowing they are flying the caddy of battleships, gave him 2 weapon mounts. This ship is also a bit of a minor assault ship flavour to go with it's lxy feel, while it only has a light rip receiver (because I saw it more like an actual carrier (which we can't mimic) that can launch ships, we fake it a bit by letting them rip in). Gave dispensor full access to mines and probes to give it more ability to allow small ships ripping to it a little breathing room, plus it can drop a teleport probe (tp1 or tp2) to try and call in some bigger support. And to aide it in the minor assault ship aspect (especially with the tp1/tp2), gave it cloak... of course it's base signature is 250% over a normal assault ships 100%- you're probably going to know it's coming, unless you don't have decent probes out of course.
Belter Goliath Battleship;
The beast of the Belter shipyard the Goliath brings the largest and toughest ship into it's super heavy class of capital ships. While larger and slower than any other ship it also is the most powerful and deadly- capable even to cause Ga'Taraan commanders to take extra precautions with their Harbingers as the Goliath can mount the feared Doomsday resonator. The much reknowned Belter versatility is also shown with the Goliaths ability to carry any missile it can research or scavenge, and that combined with the pilots quad foward gun mounts and the ships ability to use heavy cloak make it a powerful thorn to the enemy. Thankfully even the slowest ship can quickly out pace it.
A monster, big, slow, and mean. Like many belt ships I kept it's stats to fit in with their theme, though beefed up the hull quite a bit and thus made it slower and more expensive comparitively to other capships. It mounts hvy cloak, not for any assault ship aspects (signature 600% anyone...) more for tricking it out to the most of belt enjoyment (seriously wouldn't you love to cloak that beast- even if only for a few seconds of joy). Sticking with the belt and versaitlity aspect of it, the Goliath can mount any missile- doesn't matter, if a GT Harbinger somehow gets ganked and there's one of these around, look out, you made a Belt comm laugh maniacally. While this beast is slow and can't rip, it does have the ability to drop tp1/tp2- as if everyone already wasn't nanning or turreting the beast. And while the ship does lack mass drivers or skyrippers, the pilot can, with an evil glint in his eye, use the quad weapon mounts for pure anti-cap defence/offence.
For more information on the above ships, and to see some comparisons for capship hull and shields;
http://www.freeallegiance.org/FAW/index.ph...baxter:CapShips
(let me know if you'd like more/less information or to have it presented differently- still working on it)
edit- added some more thoughts on the above ships.
Is moving GS to Garrison a great idea, well unless GS had other changes- probably not.
One simple change if moved would be to only give GS access to a pilot AC and turret SC if there was a starbase. <- My preference.
Other ideas about lt/hvy GS, or mini-SC (I think the mini-SC has possibilities to think on) or not, are interesting though are more of a change, which is not a bad thing if people like the ideas. Possibly increasing the research cost (or not) if moved to Garrison is another option. Tying GS to SY somehow is also interesting, if GS are moved to Garrison for research though and not SY, you could then tie access to the turret and instead of allowing AC you could also grant SC.
=-=
For Giga and Belt SY while it would be alright to give them standard access to shipyard, I thought perhaps just add one specialized ship for super heavy class for them.
The reason being is first it would be less of a change though still would fill their need, and second that it tries to stay with their themes.
Gigacorp Luxury Battleship;
A sleak luxury battleship to bring Gigacorp into the super heavy class of capital ships. Compared to most capships it's average in most respects. Noteably it has a small ripcord receiver (while being slow and costly itself to rip) and the ability to drop mines and probes of all kinds, it also serves as a minor hybrid of an assault ship to some extent by being much stealthier than most capships while being able to mount heavy cloak and having a slight perk to it's scan range and speed.
I see this ship as having more survivability similar to that of a lxy cruiser over a cruiser, same for it's weapons- and to make the pilot a real happy camper and knowing they are flying the caddy of battleships, gave him 2 weapon mounts. This ship is also a bit of a minor assault ship flavour to go with it's lxy feel, while it only has a light rip receiver (because I saw it more like an actual carrier (which we can't mimic) that can launch ships, we fake it a bit by letting them rip in). Gave dispensor full access to mines and probes to give it more ability to allow small ships ripping to it a little breathing room, plus it can drop a teleport probe (tp1 or tp2) to try and call in some bigger support. And to aide it in the minor assault ship aspect (especially with the tp1/tp2), gave it cloak... of course it's base signature is 250% over a normal assault ships 100%- you're probably going to know it's coming, unless you don't have decent probes out of course.
Belter Goliath Battleship;
The beast of the Belter shipyard the Goliath brings the largest and toughest ship into it's super heavy class of capital ships. While larger and slower than any other ship it also is the most powerful and deadly- capable even to cause Ga'Taraan commanders to take extra precautions with their Harbingers as the Goliath can mount the feared Doomsday resonator. The much reknowned Belter versatility is also shown with the Goliaths ability to carry any missile it can research or scavenge, and that combined with the pilots quad foward gun mounts and the ships ability to use heavy cloak make it a powerful thorn to the enemy. Thankfully even the slowest ship can quickly out pace it.
A monster, big, slow, and mean. Like many belt ships I kept it's stats to fit in with their theme, though beefed up the hull quite a bit and thus made it slower and more expensive comparitively to other capships. It mounts hvy cloak, not for any assault ship aspects (signature 600% anyone...) more for tricking it out to the most of belt enjoyment (seriously wouldn't you love to cloak that beast- even if only for a few seconds of joy). Sticking with the belt and versaitlity aspect of it, the Goliath can mount any missile- doesn't matter, if a GT Harbinger somehow gets ganked and there's one of these around, look out, you made a Belt comm laugh maniacally. While this beast is slow and can't rip, it does have the ability to drop tp1/tp2- as if everyone already wasn't nanning or turreting the beast. And while the ship does lack mass drivers or skyrippers, the pilot can, with an evil glint in his eye, use the quad weapon mounts for pure anti-cap defence/offence.
For more information on the above ships, and to see some comparisons for capship hull and shields;
http://www.freeallegiance.org/FAW/index.ph...baxter:CapShips
(let me know if you'd like more/less information or to have it presented differently- still working on it)
edit- added some more thoughts on the above ships.
Last edited by jgbaxter on Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
n.b. I may not see a forum post replied to me or a pm sent to me for weeks and weeks...
I believe I posted my idea before
Very Light Class/Support Class
Gunships
Freighters
Enables Light Carriers to be bought
Light Class
Corvette
Frigate
Enables Standard Carriers to be bought
Medium Class
Destroyer
Cruiser
Enables Enhanced Carriers to be bought
Heavy Class
Devastator
Battlecruiser
Enables Advanced Carriers to be bought
Very Heavy Class/Super Heavy Class
Assault Ship
Battleship
Enables Attack Carriers to be bought
Gunships
Cost: Free
Hull: 500 [med]
Turrets: 2 AC only
Scale: 90%
Turning: 110%
Speed: 70
Freighter
Cost: 500
Hull: 500 [utl]
Weapons: 1 Hvy Nan
Scale: 80%
Turning: 80%
Speed: 30
Corvette
Cost: 1000
Hull: 1000 [med]
Turrets: 3 AC only
Scale: 80%
Turning: 110%
Speed: 80
Frigate
Cost: 1000
Hull: 1500 [hvy]
Turrets: 2 Skycap only
Missiles: 3 AB/rack
Scale: 60%
Turning: 300%
Speed: 90
No Rip/Hvy cloak
Destroyer
Cost: 2000
Hull: 1500 [hvy]
Turrets: 4 AC only
Missiles: Improved Hunterkiller/Improved Killerswarm
Scale: 80%
Turning: 400%
Speed: 70
Cruiser
Cost: 3000
Hull: 2000 [hvy]
Turrets: 3 Skycap only
Missiles: 4 AB/rack
Scale: 80%
Turning: 200%
Speed: 100
Devastator
Cost: 4000
Hull: 3000 [hvy]
Turrets: 2 Skycap only
Scale: 90%
Turning: 100%
Speed: 100
Battlecruiser
Cost: 5000
Hull: 4000 [superhvy]
Turrets: 4 Skycap only
Scale: 100%
Turning: 100%
Speed: 150
Assault Ship
Cost: 6000
Hull: 5000 [utl]
Turrets: 1 Longtom only
Scale: 120%
Turning: 80%
Speed: 100
Large Rip/Fast Energy Regen/No Hvycloak
Battleship
Cost: 8000
Hull: 7000 [superhvy]
Turrets: 2 Longtom only
Scale: 130%
Turning: 60%
Speed: 80
Rough numbers I came up with. Turning and Scale is % based on the current ship. Skycap should be adjusted to kill shields more and light/medium hulls less. AC being the light/medium hull killer.
Very Light Class/Support Class
Gunships
Freighters
Enables Light Carriers to be bought
Light Class
Corvette
Frigate
Enables Standard Carriers to be bought
Medium Class
Destroyer
Cruiser
Enables Enhanced Carriers to be bought
Heavy Class
Devastator
Battlecruiser
Enables Advanced Carriers to be bought
Very Heavy Class/Super Heavy Class
Assault Ship
Battleship
Enables Attack Carriers to be bought
Gunships
Cost: Free
Hull: 500 [med]
Turrets: 2 AC only
Scale: 90%
Turning: 110%
Speed: 70
Freighter
Cost: 500
Hull: 500 [utl]
Weapons: 1 Hvy Nan
Scale: 80%
Turning: 80%
Speed: 30
Corvette
Cost: 1000
Hull: 1000 [med]
Turrets: 3 AC only
Scale: 80%
Turning: 110%
Speed: 80
Frigate
Cost: 1000
Hull: 1500 [hvy]
Turrets: 2 Skycap only
Missiles: 3 AB/rack
Scale: 60%
Turning: 300%
Speed: 90
No Rip/Hvy cloak
Destroyer
Cost: 2000
Hull: 1500 [hvy]
Turrets: 4 AC only
Missiles: Improved Hunterkiller/Improved Killerswarm
Scale: 80%
Turning: 400%
Speed: 70
Cruiser
Cost: 3000
Hull: 2000 [hvy]
Turrets: 3 Skycap only
Missiles: 4 AB/rack
Scale: 80%
Turning: 200%
Speed: 100
Devastator
Cost: 4000
Hull: 3000 [hvy]
Turrets: 2 Skycap only
Scale: 90%
Turning: 100%
Speed: 100
Battlecruiser
Cost: 5000
Hull: 4000 [superhvy]
Turrets: 4 Skycap only
Scale: 100%
Turning: 100%
Speed: 150
Assault Ship
Cost: 6000
Hull: 5000 [utl]
Turrets: 1 Longtom only
Scale: 120%
Turning: 80%
Speed: 100
Large Rip/Fast Energy Regen/No Hvycloak
Battleship
Cost: 8000
Hull: 7000 [superhvy]
Turrets: 2 Longtom only
Scale: 130%
Turning: 60%
Speed: 80
Rough numbers I came up with. Turning and Scale is % based on the current ship. Skycap should be adjusted to kill shields more and light/medium hulls less. AC being the light/medium hull killer.
TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Aug 9 2009, 07:15 AM) it's interesting how politics turns ordinarily funny, kind-hearted people into vicious, hateful attack mongers. Except IB, he's just always that way.
People just take stuff too seriously I think. Except IB, of course.