Fighter-Bombers.

Guivre · Post by **Guivre** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:46 pm

Here's a thought that came to me when TP2 specific scouts were mentioned.

Would it be possible, or a good idea, to give a sig rating to TP probes when they are loaded, just like missiles have? That way the scout's sig rating goes up when they load the TP probes to drop and gives the defenders a few more seconds to get ready.

Although I don't know how good that would be in use. If people are expecting a TP drop then there is going to be a number of them just waiting in base to transfer to whatever sector is under attack and boost on out to kill the TP/scout/intercept bombers. In large pickup games you normally have the more skilled commanders who knows if it is a feint or not, thus having multiple drops may or may not be useful. Not saying you shouldn't make feints, I'm just saying from what I have seen.

And too, on the increase the sig rating on scouts doesn't it come down to proper probing? Most times back when I played we knew roughly what sectors were potential targets for a TP drop. We knew when potential TP scout infiltrated, if we had good probing, and you could roughly tell when the other team was getting ready for a TP drop because you'll see a marked decrease in the number of them out miner raiding or whatever. Most times you could even find the TP scout, it could be hard, don't get me wrong, but I think it largely down to the fact that few people like to go and lay down probes and it can be difficult to get a coordinated TP scout hunt going.

Which, now that I think about it, I am against upping the sig rating on scouts and such. You shouldn't nerf something to make up for lack of teamwork in a teamwork oriented game. If people refuse to probe or make a coordinated TP scout hunt, then comms should use that and ram it down their opponents throats until they learn to counter it.

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Guivre wrote:QUOTE (Guivre @ Jun 5 2009, 01:46 PM) Here's a thought that came to me when TP2 specific scouts were mentioned.

Would it be possible, or a good idea, to give a sig rating to TP probes when they are loaded, just like missiles have? That way the scout's sig rating goes up when they load the TP probes to drop and gives the defenders a few more seconds to get ready.

If it's possible in the code, it would require an ICE change. However, I would guess that it isn't possible in the code.

Icky · Post by **Icky** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Guivre wrote:QUOTE (Guivre @ Jun 5 2009, 01:46 PM) Here's a thought that came to me when TP2 specific scouts were mentioned.

Would it be possible, or a good idea, to give a sig rating to TP probes when they are loaded, just like missiles have? That way the scout's sig rating goes up when they load the TP probes to drop and gives the defenders a few more seconds to get ready.

I don't see this making a big difference in practice. All it would mean is that the tp2 scout wouldn't load the probe until they were ready to drop, which most of the time would be behind a rock and uneyed until it's dropped anyways.

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:05 pm

Guivre wrote:QUOTE (Guivre @ Jun 5 2009, 05:46 PM) Which, now that I think about it, I am against upping the sig rating on scouts and such. You shouldn't nerf something to make up for lack of teamwork in a teamwork oriented game. If people refuse to probe or make a coordinated TP scout hunt, then comms should use that and ram it down their opponents throats until they learn to counter it.

While I agree with the general point - once the team has Heavy scouts up TP2 dropping becomes relatively easy. Even I managed it a few nights ago (true we were bios hvys tho

)

Guivre · Post by **Guivre** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:45 am

I think I'd say that it becomes easier with Hvy Scouts rather than easy. Whether or not it's truly easy tends to depend on the opposing team.

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:11 am

Guivre wrote:QUOTE (Guivre @ Jun 6 2009, 04:45 AM) I think I'd say that it becomes easier with Hvy Scouts rather than easy. Whether or not it's truly easy tends to depend on the opposing team.

True, but I was picking up on what others said, about potential nerfs - that seemed the balanced one - making TP2 more difficult, without reducing too much the chances of game success if done right.

To be totally honest, I'm still not convinced TP2 Figbee runs are overpowered, and no-one has presented a good case to convince me they are....

It take ~ 30-40 minutes (minimum) to get Figbees up in your average PUG.

By that time - you should have the ability to end the game, and making it more difficult to end the game will lead to longer games.

Figbee runs do fail to switched on D, with the current settings.

I am pretty much against anything that will potentially lead to longer games frankly, and I expect many would agree with me there.

Koln · Post by **Koln** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:50 am

notjarvis wrote:QUOTE (notjarvis @ Jun 6 2009, 11:11 AM) I am pretty much against anything that will potentially lead to longer games frankly, and I expect many would agree with me there.

I do agree.

SpaceJunk · Post by **SpaceJunk** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:57 pm

+1 to that.

Letting FBs become sort of $100 Semi-Lxy figs when not carrying $150-each ABs would be a perk, actually.

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:01 pm

I think I'm against a unique, weaker AB-missile, actually, because this wouldn't really help the basic problem - that this end-game tech requires less teamwork. It would just mean it scales differently, but changes nothing otherwise. Limiting TP2 energy really seems like it would require more teamwork - as someone's mentioned, it'd be a bit like stealth bombing, in that a few stealthy ships need to sneak into the enemy sector together, and all "attack" at the same, carefully chosen, moment. Not only does it make the tech scale better, it's also just plain more exciting. The most difficult and fun part of figbee runs is the TP2 drop anyway, so having more of an emphasis of that, and encouraging more players to participate in that aspect of the attack seems like a great deal. >_>

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:24 pm

Man I'm sick of reading these replies. While they're all good intentioned, your ideas are also pretty clueless. When you want to balance this particular core (the main core), you don't want to change the dynamic of the game so much. Honestly it's been tried before and it is not popular. Try playing EoR. CC has a specific DN flavour that you can identify if you've played a bit.

I consider myself a TP2'ing sexpert and lemme tell you it's extremely easy to stop TP2s from being dropped. TP2s are not the problem...but they are exponentially more effective if the enemy has no idea whether or not you have them. This means they don't probe alephs, galv rocks, probe rocks, camp alephs, etc. Plus people still do not have any idea how to probe against SBs and TP2 scouts. What's the point of dropping probes randomly in the sector and FILL it with probes? THERE IS NO POINT. Scouts and SBs come through alephs. If you think TP2 is too strong, probe the aleph, and the rocks. Or camp the rocks!!!

FBs are slightly strong, and XRM Hvy Bombers are useless. They should come towards the middle ground in balance, with FBs being weaker and XRM Bombers being strongah. Again, don't change the dynamics of FB usage. Yes, they're called "Fighter-Bombers" and they're useless at fighting (so are fighters, but whatever) but even if you did increase their combat power if I saw anyone on a FB run dogfighting, or taking a turret, I would boot them and kill the person responsible for the change. I don't care if you make them like Hvy Ints. Nobody, NOBODY is allowed to dogfight on a run. I mean nobody. They should be attacking the base, it is ALWAYS more effective for everyone to be either in a base killing ship, or a nan. It is almost never effective to fight your way towards a target, bomb it, and head back because it just doesn't work like that. So don't change FBs like that, it is useless.

All balancing changes can be done VERY simply, rather than trying out all of your harebrained schemes which have no basis in reality. I'll say it again, 90% of you people are useless at defence, so make the FBs bigger. Similarly you can make them slower so they're easier to shoot down. I would say increase the cost of FB'ing but you want an intermediate endgame tech for Sup that is better than regular bombing but worse than XRM'ing. While XRM is being perked, FBs should be nerfed so they're a medium alternative to XRM, and XRM is used to fully own the enemy if you can't accomplish it using FBs alone.

Summary:
-Make FBs bigger
-Make FBs slower

THAT IS ALL.