Discussion of IC Changes

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:07 am

Psychosis wrote:QUOTE (Psychosis @ May 3 2009, 08:28 AM) tl;dr version:
remove ungalvable bases, see what happens

This.

What a strange feeling to be in complete agreement with Psyc. One of us is probably ill or something...

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:46 pm

Psychosis wrote:QUOTE (Psychosis @ May 3 2009, 01:28 AM) this has several effects, IC exp is nerfed because pushing a base does not ensure its invincibility to anything but a bomber
IC sup is nerfed because now you can be galved back
IC tac is nerfed because you have to worry about defending against galvs instead of just bombers
there, everything is nerfed through removing the cheesiest part of IC

As an IC com, I love not having to worry about adv sup, commanding against IC is always a pain for that reason, because I know its going to turn into a slugging match or a bombrush for me, it really limits your endgame choices against IC.

Yes, it nerfs a lot of stuff for a faction that really isn't in need of that huge a nerf. Every IC techpath does not need nerfs. IC is not that overwhelmingly strong. It may need a tweak, but it does not need every techpath to be made weaker.

At least make TPs ungalvable, to encourage people going sup.

Personally I think making everything galvable would make playing sup against IC boring. The fact that you can now use the same strategy you have against other factions is not a good thing. It's good to have factions that are invulnerable to some aspect of gameplay, because if forces you to play differently and mixes things up a bit. It's good that you can't galv IC bases. It doesn't mean you can't figbomb and TP2 them. The exp-vs-exp thing is as much the fault of IC commanders who ignore that IC sup is pretty awesome as it is the fault of IC faction design.

Or, if you want a nerf, how about just making the constructors more fragile, higher-sig, and slower? The bases themselves wouldn't be nerfed, but that would make it more realistic for the other team to prevent the base from planting in the first place, including with sup. It is balanced because while the uniqueness of the faction is preserved, the enemy, knowing of this uniqueness, could put extra effort into preventing the ungalvable bases from getting built in the first place, and would actually have a chance of succeeding. Pushing bases will be challenging. The ungalvable base will be a reward to something that's actually hard to do. And it makes sense as a trade-off: if the base is hard to kill, it can be hard to build in the first place, too. Plus, it would make IC opening a bit slower and weaker, to compensate for the light ints. So there ya go. Fewer people might go IC as a result, the faction gets more balanced, yet the uniqueness of their bases is preserved. Eh? Eh?

apochboi · Post by **apochboi** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:00 pm

Well heres my take on it (copied from my post inthe cc office regarding this discussion)

QUOTE Looking at the proposed changes changes which the community and yourself(spidey) suggested you are going to nerf IC into a second rate faction, mark my words. IC does not need nerfed. The slightest change in rip time will kill IC's econ as it stands. The econ is currently poor (in numbers). So yeh if they want us to nerf IC lets do it. This will be a good lesson for us all.[/quote]

I've asked for the win percentages and when/if we implement a change im going to compare the win vs win of IC.
Once you all see you have nerfed IC into the ground and made them worse than GT. I will post a very large I told you so.
Once again this my own personal opinion.

Apoch
Your loving core developer.

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:42 pm

If rip time is lengthened certainly I would think it would need to be compensated for in miner speed, othewise I agree IC would be nerfed to crap.

Buyo · Post by **Buyo** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:52 pm

I think it would be kinda obvious that AFTER you NERF something, it will lose more games since it was made weaker?

Also, I haven't made any calculations or anything but I play alleg on a regular basis, probably at least 1 or 2 games, and I think IC does need a nerf, I'm not saying that you need to make them awful, just a little worse, as someone said before there is a reason all squads consider IC the safest choice, can't be galved, early miner rush = rip them FTW, no ship research, the strongest point is definitely their ripping miners since alleg is all about the miners, no miner, no money, no tech. SOOO maybe instead of tweaking the miners you could make their bases galvable.

Just an opinion.

Paradigm2 · Post by **Paradigm2** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:55 pm

I'd rather see IC lose free ships before they lost ungalvable bases.

Buyo · Post by **Buyo** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:02 pm

Ungalvable bases is probably their 2nd strongest point, once IC plants an op it's really hard to get rid of it, you can't even galv it, so if you want to get rid of let's say that pesky op in your way of mining or the one that is next to your miners what do you have to do? bombers, but against IC this is way harder compared to the other factions considering that any decent comm will probably have his usual IC with mini2 AND, it's not like the op blows with 2 AB, you need like 3 and even 4 with 0 kb.

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:27 pm

Then keep them ungalvable but make them weaker against ABs. Just keep the unique ungalvable bases plz. >_<

Kap · Post by **Kap** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:41 pm

or just reduce their yield so they dont get hvy ints with like their home and 1 other sector

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:24 pm

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ May 4 2009, 09:42 AM) If rip time is lengthened certainly I would think it would need to be compensated for in miner speed, othewise I agree IC would be nerfed to crap.

A 5 second rip time increase is hardly a "nerf to crap"

In fact it serves several purposes all without "nerfing them to crap"

It:
-slows down their ripping back home which slows down your econ by 5 seconds
-this will increase the time it takes you get your adv tech
-it makes your miners a tiny bit more fragile (how many times would you have been able to kill an undefended miner if you had 5 more seconds?) so econ is not just about ripping your @#(! all around with no danger

Like I said the 5 seconds wasn't noticeable in such a way that I would constitute it as "nerfing ic to crap"