Rix heavy scouts

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:44 pm

One of the "new cheese" bits that I dislike the most are rix heavy scouts.

The lead indicator & mini AC lead to games where the commander goes rix sup & starbase, and only buys AC upgrades. No need for real tech for these banana's of doom.

I understand wanting to beef up the rix heavy scout from having one gat up front, but surely two gats would be more than enough.

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The more general thought has been said by more eloquent people than me, but I'd still like to put it forward once again. Putting more and more powerful things into Allegiance degrades the skill element of the game, and takes it closer to a bog ordinary FPS. Fan made content suffers from this logic in pretty much every game in existence, it's not just Allegiance's problem. When people want to bring something new in (a worthy goal) they tend to think "wouldn't it be awesome if?" and create something unbalanced.

I've come to accept the heavy scouts, even though I still think they are a bit unnecessary... and definitely designed on the "wouldn't it be awesome if I could..." principle to be a scout whores dream ship. The double slots are nice. No problem there. The huge scan range could come down a bit, but the real problem is the quicklaunch missile racks.

I know I've brought them up before, but I suspect people will bring them up as a reason why the rix heavy scout needs to have the mini-AC, so I'll address that too.

They may be right in the sense that the QL breaks the mold with rix having no missiles as a tradeoff for the powerful guns. The key here though is that it's the QL missiles that break the situation. There is no rhyme or reason in them, nor is there any frigging reason for the heavy scout to have them. It's just stupid, and leads to the scout being an overpowered miner killing tool.

The missile rack progression 2 / 3 / 4 is perfectly fine, but why on earth would the heavy scout suddenly need to have hyper tech missile racks that no other ship possesses? A text book example of fan creation with total disregard for game balance or even reason for being other than it makes the ship more powerful.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:19 pm

AC2 Heavy Scouts cost something like 35-40k, thats equivalent to Heavy Ints for IC. IC Heavy Ints > Rix Heavy Scouts.

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:20 pm

QL missiles were a result of the Dual Missiles not hitting anything/hitting themselves/not working like they were supposed to. There were issues with the code, that if I remember correctly could not/didn't have time to fix when Noir was doing DN. As such, he put the QL instead, which gave you the same amount of missiles to be fired in the same amount of time.
Go back and read DN's dev forums/patch notes for more info

Rix gets the miniac front in my opinion simply BECAUSE they don't have missiles. The same way TF hvy scouts get 3 front gats with their no missiles. Logical in my opinion.

And when was the last time you saw a Rix team that won with just hvy scouts and ac ups? Not very often. Why? Because REAL TECH kills cheese like this. And lets be honest, the only times you see rix hvy scouts are when the game is already won (you didn't kill ANY of their miners, did you?) or the commander is a clueless moron (who needs to expand! We have rix hvy scouts!).

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:22 pm

Noir wrote:QUOTE (Noir @ Aug 15 2006, 02:58 PM) Note that Hvy Scouts also now require a Tech Base (Sup/Exp/Tac). Missile based Hvy Scouts also get new "QuickLoad" Seeker/Dumb variants. These are single fire, quick loading versions that work better than duals because they are more accurate (do not suffer from dual style wide Salvo launch ratio) and have normal sizes.

See Above

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:38 pm

I still don't understand why a scout would get a better missile (be it Dual Launch or QuickLoad) than any other ship.

Mordechaj · Post by **Mordechaj** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:35 pm

figs and sf's should have missile superiority

Psychosis · Post by **Psychosis** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:47 pm

honestly, I love it when the other team goes rix hvyscouts without getting another ADV tech, here is why

to be really effective, it takes 2 people to max that ship out. if you have adv tech up (which you should) then its 2kills for 1 ship.

honestly, the last couple times I went up against Rix Hvyscouts, we just kept smacking away at them until our KB's got stupid big and we pushed cons and won.

honestly, I would not rush rix hvyscouts, and they are in EVERY case except vs Adv Tac, not worth it

SpaceJunk · Post by **SpaceJunk** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:55 pm

Heavy scouts should carry shotguns for miner wooping!

... what? They are too small and light to be firing long-barrel long-range weapons.

DasSmiter · Post by **DasSmiter** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:07 pm

Rix heavy scouts aren't all that awesome, although their dmg is a bit higher than other hvy scouts it seems. Maybe if you QL a buncha seekers it evens it out.

AFAIK dual missiles (and now QL missiles) were another incentive to get hvy scouts. You essentially made a scout able to defend itself reasonably well against other adv techs, but in a head on battle the scout still loses.

I think you mentioned the dmg to miners especially because of the QL dumbfires, but adv figs or hvy ints or adv sf can do a @#(! ton more dmg spiking to a miner than any hvy scout period. I'm not sure what specific issue you have with the QL other than "It doesn't make sense really."

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:19 pm

The difference is people don't pay attention to the lone hvy scout if your not playing against rix or tf in a Pug, and then the miner dies to the DF's and gat3.

Ever notice how you only see hvy scouts when the team is sup? Try flying a hvy scout with gat1/df1 and see how much of a difference it is