Is this a viable way to play a stealth class?

Tactical advice, How-to, Post-mortem, etc.
toddmd2
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Post by toddmd2 »

Back when I used to play Battlefield 2 my favorite class was the spec ops because you could travel around the map taking out the opposing commander's radar arrays effectively blinding and enraging them in one fail swoop.

Is this kind of play supported in Allegiance? Could I play as a stealth class sneaking around the void taking out enemy probes? What other units provide situational awareness? For example, will an enemy miner provide the comm with details about what's going on in that sector? I know, stealth tactics are probably over my newbie head, but I have honestly not had a crush on a game like this since Star Control 2. :iluv:

One other unrelated thing. At the beginning of a match, when I first travel through an aleph do all of that aleph's resources immediately become known to you or do you need to poke around a bit to find things like uranium and helium?
djrbk
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Post by djrbk »

Totally. All tactical tech ships have signature cloaks which enable them to have highly reduced signatures.

You could also do something like move your shields and missiles into your cargo which lowers your signature, and use, say, a scout to take out all of the probes in the sector. With no probes in the sector, even a boosting interceptor shooting all it's guns (v. high sig), or a bomber, or a constructor would not get eyed.

Also, all bios faction ships are equipped with heavy cloaks which make you almost invisible for a short bit of time.


"do you need to poke around a bit to find things like uranium and helium?"

You'll find them pretty easily with poking your nose in the sector, but what you're actually looking for are alephe connecting into other sectors.
gr4vity
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Post by gr4vity »

The Pope of Chilitown wrote:QUOTE (The Pope of Chilitown @ Mar 14 2009, 04:30 PM) Is this kind of play supported in Allegiance? Could I play as a stealth class sneaking around the void taking out enemy probes? What other units provide situational awareness? For example, will an enemy miner provide the comm with details about what's going on in that sector?
Yes. (Have you checked out the academy yet?)

QUOTE One other unrelated thing. At the beginning of a match, when I first travel through an aleph do all of that aleph's resources immediately become known to you or do you need to poke around a bit to find things like uranium and helium?[/quote]
As soon as your scout is in scan range he will discover the rocks.

edit: Ok, DJ was quicker ;)
Last edited by gr4vity on Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Makida
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Post by Makida »

Firstly: Yayyy Star Control 2!

Secondly: You really have to stop thinking in terms of "classes," I think, because in Allegiance, you will need to switch ships often, depending on what your team needs most. Also because not all types of ships will be available depending on what technology your team has. Also, because all ships need to be stealthy sometimes; I mean, I get that you're talking about stealth fighters now, but being stealthy is important with many different ships, depending on the situation.

Anywho, while you definitely *could* go around killing EWS probes in a stealth fighter, you should really do that in a scout. The scout's superior sensor range will make it easier to find enemy probes, and you can have a cargo full of probes of your own to deploy, expanding your team's situational awareness even as you reduce your enemy's. Also, scouts will usually attract less attention than a stealth fighter, since when someone sees a SF on the mini-map, they'll usually assume it's hunting for miners. Also, you really don't need stealth to hunt for enemy probes. Teams typically check whether they have enough probes around, and re-deploy them as needed, rather than wasting time hunting down individual ships that are trying to kill probes. Even if they see a specific ship taking out probes in a given sector, the reaction is usually to assume the enemy is about to attack from that sector, and re-deploy probes there, rather than to go hunting down that one ship (unless there's an opportunity to do so easily. I mean, no-one would chase you across three sectors just for killing probes in a scout.)

The main purpose of stealth fighters is to kill enemy miners by hunting for them while remaining stealthy, then launching a few missiles at the miner while beginning to approach it, and then finishing it off with Util cannons. Of course that's not ALL SFs can do, with good technology and an early warning they can be good defenders too... but that's their primary function.

Aside from probes, scouts are most useful in providing the enemy with situational awareness, obviously, but, yes, any ship will let the enemy see what's around it. Scouts just have the most sensor range. So yes, if an enemy miner sees you, the enemy team will know you're there. All information from all ships, from miners to scouts (and bases too), goes onto the team's mini-map (always have the mini-map on, press F7 if it isn't.) But scouts are the ships that are meant to go around spying on enemy movements, so if you're trying to be stealthy they're what you need to worry about most.

When you first enter a sector, no, you will not instantly know all the resources there. You have to "discover" the relevant asteroids. In practice, scouts' high sensor range and the relatively high signature of asteroids means that you'll discover most of a sector's resources very quickly as you start to fly through it, but you likely won't see ALL the helium rocks in it right away. If you're in a scout, you'll usually see the tech rock (carbon/uranium/silicon) right away though. Ships with lower sensor range might enter a sector and see nothing at all, however, and all the resources will remain invisible to the team. So, as you hopefully know already, only try to scout in... scouts. :P

About stealth: Any ship can be made more stealthy by stowing shields and missiles in cargo. Have your ship's manifest open (press F4) and if you have free slots in cargo, press Ctrl-7 to unmount shields, and Ctrl-5 to unmount missiles (if you don't have room, you can press Ctrl-S to eject cargo and make space... just don't eject something you'll need later by accident!) This lowers your signature. Once you've been detected, or when you're going on the attack and know that you're about to be detected anyway, you can re-equip them by pressing those keys again. Always do this in stealth fighters, or they won't be very stealthy.

Stealth is important for other ships. Bombers and Heavy Troop Transports will try to remain undetected as long as possible when approaching an enemy sector. Heavy Troop Transports particularly will try to hide in enemy sectors while remaining undetected, moving to the best angle for the attack run. If you're going to be nanning the HTT in a scout, make sure to drop your shields and don't have any missiles loaded, because if your scout is spotted, someone might follow it to the HTT. You can raise them again once you've been spotted, after the attack run is already well under way.
Last edited by Makida on Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zecro
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Post by zecro »

Ok, every object in allegiance has a signature. It's actual size doesn't matter, it's the sig value.

Shields and missiles loaded increase your signature. Boosting and shooting guns greatly increases your signature. Different guns/boosters have different effects though, nans are only like a 5% increase, but shooting three mini2 can get you over 1000%, which basically means anything can see you.

When you enter a sector you don't know what's in it. Be sure to have the minimap open always. Always. Also, expand it so you can see the economic rock numbers/helium levels. Try the following: enter a sector with no data in a scout. Chances are you can see two of the four He rocks and the big resource rock. Try entering in a fighter. You probably won't be able to see much. The interceptor and pod have such small scan ranges that it is impossible to see rocks and enemy bases unless you pretty much ram them.

What are the scan ranges of all the ships and factions? Good question, I would like to know also.

You're on the right track to understanding Allegiance if you talk about situational awareness in your first several posts. It's not a space fighter game (not quake in space). Situational awareness is very important, but if your team has stealths (commander builds a tac lab), you're better off hunting miners and constructors to hamper the enemy's economy. However, things like bombers, stealth bombers, troop transports, and miners/constructors hate being seen. They hate it. Removing enemy probes is awesome. Putting out your own probes is equally awesome and important.

The hard truth is that you're not going to be flying stealth ships a lot. Tac is the most difficult techpath to start with, so much so that not having a backup tech (usually expansion, hence tacspantion) probably means you lost. Also, scouts have a greater scan range. Probes have a small signature, so you need to be within 1 km of one in a scout to find it (usually closer). Pilots try to do a good job of putting them off-plane, so finding probes can be a pain, especially if you're in a stealth fighter, they don't maneuver very well.

Go with the scout. Load a gattling gun to kill probes (you can ram them too), a nan in cargo in case you need to warp back and defend something, and fill the rest of your cargo with your own probes. Fly around, shoot every so often to raise your sig, and you should be able to find probes a lot more quickly than in a stealth. De-probing takes skill, unlike dogfighting, and it's a very good skill to know.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Fly a scout over an SF for deprobing. Aside from the "the enemy is less likely to try and pod you" argument (which isn't strictly true... they could assume you're looking for miners or they could be about to do something in that area), it's much easier to run away in a scout than an SF, and your sig isn't much higher (well, before cloak of course). Scouts are faster, actually turn, and ripcord in ten seconds rather than sixteen (? I haven't flown an SF in far too long). Plus you can carry prox.

Join Cadet though, it'll make everything MUCH more clear.
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Correct
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Post by Correct »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Mar 14 2009, 03:45 PM) it's much easier to run away in a scout than an SF
I'm going to disagree. SFs are made for running away and hiding.
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Adept
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Post by Adept »

Correct wrote:QUOTE (Correct @ Mar 15 2009, 01:00 AM) I'm going to disagree. SFs are made for running away and hiding.
What he said. Only a bios scout anything like the escape potential a stealth fig has.
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Psychosis
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Post by Psychosis »

I'm specializing in "drunk raving maniac" class....

right now I'm lvling up my RAGEQUIT skill
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Correct wrote:QUOTE (Correct @ Mar 14 2009, 04:00 PM) I'm going to disagree. SFs are made for running away and hiding.
SFs are made for hiding, yes. Running away? Not so much.
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