Game counted?

bigheadzach · Post by **bigheadzach** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:21 pm

Would it also not be difficult to add a feature that forces commanders to pick teams? At least that way you're guaranteed to get half of the good players.

*expects to get slapped*

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:27 pm

bigheadzach, I was just thinking, can you keep me up to date how things are progressing with B&B?

If you get many to play in the Alleg Nationals I'll have to make a Team Georgia - USA. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

EDIT- rofl Ok now my on topic part. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Forcing commanders to pick teams is not good for several reasons;Picking takes awhileWaiting to get picked is annoyingWe'd need official procedures (or conventions) on pickingCommanders often don't know who to pick so better commanders tend to get a much better teamOften picking doesn't do much to affect team balanceHaving said that, I prefer picked games, well, not all the time though. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

bigheadzach · Post by **bigheadzach** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:57 pm

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Sep 12 2006, 05:27 PM) bigheadzach, I was just thinking, can you keep me up to date how things are progressing with B&B?

At this point, we have 3 computers with Allegiance installed, but a couple of them have shared callsigns. Would I have to go straight to Thal to get these fixed, or is there someone more accessible that could fix it?

We managed to get an "overlay directory" setup with the latest cores, Academy-suggested keymaps, and CortUI. So our procedure to install on new computers is to run Setup, then copy the overlay directory onto the installation so all of the patches/upgrades are done at once. We then register a callsign for that computer - numbered BNBxx where xx is 01 through 20 - and we're good to go.

So far, efforts to introduce the game to others has been well-received; slow, but well-received. The Deathmatching is pretty intense, and I've demonstrated the Conquest game to a few and shown them the basics of commanding (just how to manipulate the interface, nothing more). It's a bit unfortunate that we'll have to stick to psuedoanonymous callsigns for the time being ("BNB16 (all): Hey it's me BigHead@CDT-B!") since stats will not be truly tracked per person, but hopefully we'll have enough for a decent LAN game at some point.

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Sep 12 2006, 05:27 PM) Forcing commanders to pick teams is not good for several reasons;Picking takes awhileWaiting to get picked is annoyingWe'd need official procedures (or conventions) on pickingCommanders often don't know who to pick so better commanders tend to get a much better teamOften picking doesn't do much to affect team balance

* Compared to the "while" waited for teams to stop whining about the stack or removing a noob comm hostage?
* I'd prefer waiting to get picked than trying to join a team and being ignored.
* Those conventions haven't changed since our high-school Kickball games. Only thing not implemented would be a coin flip to determine who goes first in the picking.
* Commanders will learn through experience who is a good player and who is not.
* If we "play along", balance will work itself out.

As much as ELO turns me on as a statmonger and database admin wannabe, it might better serve us to track other stats and have players have a publicly-viewable "baseball card" indicating various metrics (base kills / game, kills / game, probes dropped / game, etc.) You don't see NFL draftees flashing an ELO score.

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:00 am

Regarding the linked accounts, still looking at Thal, maybe BV, I'm not sure if he's at that point yet (personally Tiger should also have access, would help out a lot). /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

jess_i_74 · Post by **jess_i_74** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:59 pm

Lindy_Hop wrote:QUOTE (Lindy_Hop @ Sep 12 2006, 10:39 AM) <snip>

In terms of fun, shooting someone else down is always more fun than dropping probes or shooting blue rings at a bomber. Noone, not even long time recognized nan whores like myself, enjoys nanning. You could make naning/probing worth double the points of dogfighting and that still would not change the fundamental fact that these basic activities are not fun.

But people still did them under the old point system, people still did this when points were not an issue, and people will still do this regardless of elo. Those activities win games, and regardless of personal enjoyment of dogfighting or point accumulation, winning is the ultimate drive that has supported these activities and will continue to support it.

<snip>

This is true, as long as people want to win. Sometimes, people just want to whore and couldn't care less about winning. It would be nice at the end of the day to see some recognition of nanning. And if your point is true, then no one will want to nan-exploit because it just shows that you're good at doing something boring. Notice I'm not referring to a system that balances games, I'm referring to a stat collection system similar to the old AZ leaderboard.

Lindy_Hop · Post by **Lindy_Hop** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:03 pm

jess_i_74 wrote:QUOTE (jess_i_74 @ Sep 13 2006, 08:59 AM) And if your point is true, then no one will want to nan-exploit because it just shows that you're good at doing something boring. Notice I'm not referring to a system that balances games, I'm referring to a stat collection system similar to the old AZ leaderboard.

Unfortunately you miss some fundamental cause and effect.

Objective - win a game. Result you nan.

Objective - inflate your e-peen on a stat board. Result you nan exploit.

The issue you miss is that e-peen inflation is fun for some and that given an exploitable system people will exploit it. Multi hour games of trading base captures in htts is not really fun but people did it.

But at heart, does awarding points for nanning actually encourage in game nanning?

Not really.

At the heart of it the question is what do I want to do not what will get me points. While "look at the points I got" may be on the backburner for an int whore, of much greater importance is the "ha ha I just pwned this guy" feeling as enemies blow up. Similar for the nan whore, points are a background concern over getting the bomber or htt where it needs to go. No ammount of point incentivizing will change the fact that playing Luke in the death star run is always more appealing than playing Biggs even though both are needed for the run to work.

So points for nanning? Eh I'll take em. But my main point is lets not kid ourselves that it is a real incentive to promote propper game winning behavior.

Post by **Raveen** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:55 pm

It might not be a big incentive, but an incentive it would be none the less.

TBH I'm not sure you're right with your analysis of whore behaviour anyway. Sure they enjoy pwning someone, but the number of games where people are impressed because they got top kills or top points is quite large.

Lindy_Hop · Post by **Lindy_Hop** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:36 pm

Don't confuse bragging with motivation. I would be very suprised if the whores enterd a game with the express goal of "I want to make as many points as possible" or "I want to top the killboard" as opposed to "I want to pod as many people as I can". In other words what happens is people decide, I want to whore, and the stat board is a way to validate their whoring and their epeen after the fact. It is not I want to brag about my stats so I am going to whore.

Thus lets not kid ourselves on nanning. Assigning points to nanning will allow you to brag about nanning but is not really an incentive to start nanning in the first place.

Grim_Reaper_4u · Post by **Grim_Reaper_4u** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:50 pm

Lindy, like you say : some peeps will stat-pad when given the chance. If you get points for nanning just turn ff on and drop shields and ram+nan away, for belts it's even easier : just activate both nan and gat on a fig an enjoy your time /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Probe art is a nice way to get probing points and do nothing for the team except give them a nice view on f3 /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

I don't give a @#(! about ranks, but i do care about balanced games. If we can make a system that allows us to only play evenly matched games then I'm all for it. I don't think remembering every vets nick+hiders will give us even games. I do think that forcing vets to sit on NOAT until they balance a game will give us even games. Just read my post on the previous page (last one at the bottom), it makes sense and you know it /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:19 pm

I think that if a team wants to win, they'll win. Even though most people here don't show it, I bet that everyone who has played this game for at least 3-4 months has a rough idea of what they should do and how they can win. They just choose not to do it for whatever reason. Maybe they perceive a stack on the other team or don't even bother trying, maybe they want to fly in circles, I don't know. Really, if people put even a slight bit more effort into thinking about what they do when they're flying, the level of gameplay would go up by quite a bit.