Allegiance - The Future

Kltplzyxm · Post by **Kltplzyxm** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:56 pm

I'll add one more thing... rank has less meaning during an SG. That's something you can't say about a PUG. Stacks will be less of an issue. Furthermore, it's a good venue for the newly squadded to gain more experience flying with others in an SG-like setting along with those not of their squad.

Narg · Post by **Narg** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:17 pm

TheVoid37 wrote:QUOTE (TheVoid37 @ Jul 28 2007, 04:40 AM) I think you will find that mercs like to whore it up more than squadies and I think you will find that squadies push more for the game ending goals than mercs. But again that is just my opinion based of what I actually see in game play.

Also, there is nothing to stop a merc from joining @CDT and then having access to this server. This will also give a merc the chance to see if they like the squad style of play. Sorta like free samples of food. Try it you might like it.

Edit: First BULL@#(!. Second so I should have BV add me to all cadet classes from now on? Third, I have been on a squad I know what it's like so I don't want samples.

Mr. Kltplzyxm wrote:QUOTE (Mr. Kltplzyxm @ Jul 28 2007, 05:10 AM) I'm also open to creating a list of accepted mercs for the squadded server on a per-person basis.

Fine but squaded players also have to get accepted based on their skill ----- you aren't in!

TheVoid37 wrote:QUOTE (TheVoid37 @ Jul 28 2007, 05:36 AM) Say every night @Ace or @XT stacks to one team and the game play is horrible for all the mercs on the other team. Its about Myself making a comittment to a squad that I want to improve my ability to work to the max of my efficiency with them to better our game as a team to compete against other teams. I can't do that on a pug, I have not commited to only playing with certain mercs, the mercs or even other squadies I play with in a PUG changes every single game and often quite a bit during the game.

First of all there is absolutly no problem with all of the XT players on joining one team if for example all of the PK players join the other team during a regular game. I know I used to fly for comms who were from my squad even against stacks and better comms, and I usually joined the team with more of them on.
I don't see the difference with the rest of your arguments, your squad can have as many SGs as it wants, they are typically on suday because the most players can play then. If you are talking about players from a couple squads against those from a couple other because there are insufficient from each squad then do it. But do it this way, join the main game split up on the two teams and let everyone else in, in a balanced way. I've had some great games like this after an SG, while there are plenty of people there who want to play with their squad, so you have a PK+SRM vs GB+SysX for example and you let everyone else on. You get to play with squaddies who you have "commited to" (did you propose?), and everyone gets to enjoy quality gameplay. Is it by leaving people out that you enjoy yourself?

TheVoid37 · Post by **TheVoid37** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:46 pm

Narg wrote:QUOTE (Narg @ Jul 27 2007, 04:17 PM) Edit: First BULL@#(!. Second so I should have BV add me to all cadet classes from now on? Third, I have been on a squad I know what it's like so I don't want samples.

Why is that statement BS, its no more BS than any statement you make. That is my opinion, as I stated it was and I did not try and push it off as fact. Its a generalization I make based off what I see, if a survey was done who knows what the numbers would be.

If you want to repeatedly go through CDT I don't know what their policy is on that but that's your decision and I would not fight to take that away from you. Sort of like you are fighting to take the ability for me to play squad style games away and force me to play others. I never said that I want to play only squad style games, I enjoy PUGS and Squads for different reasons, but I don't want to be forced to play PUGS all the time. I believe many squadies feel this way.

If you have been on a squad and don't like it then why would you want to join the CDT session to play on a squad play server. Is this just something you want to do to disrupt the community? Just another way for you to work the system and trash other people's game play? If your desire is to disrupt other people's game play then maybe you shouldn't be here? Just thoughts.

Narg wrote:QUOTE (Narg @ Jul 27 2007, 04:17 PM) First of all there is absolutly no problem with all of the XT players on joining one team if for example all of the PK players join the other team during a regular game.

Who knows maybe that is the next evolution of this idea, but first you have to get things rolling instead of trying to stop progression.

Narg wrote:QUOTE (Narg @ Jul 27 2007, 04:17 PM) your squad can have as many SGs as it wants, they are typically on suday because the most players can play then. If you are talking about players from a couple squads against those from a couple other because there are insufficient from each squad then do it. But do it this way, join the main game split up on the two teams and let everyone else in, in a balanced way.

Makes me worry when you want to force me to play one way when all I want to do is play the game with a few friends the way I want without interrupting your game. Maybe XT wants to Team up with GB to play against SF and Ace. Maybe we want to see if we can out bomb/bomber defence Ace's bomber and bomber defence team while GB pits their miner offence and defence against SF's. Maybe we don't want some random player crusing through the center aleph in IO with shields and missiles up. If our squaddie does this we can easily evaluate him privately on our forums and correct him and he has given us a commitement to the team to listen and learn or even teach us things if the situation is reversed. Random merc could just say "Screw you" then we have to deal with the drama of removing him from that team etc... Where as a squad member who doesn't want to play as a team on the squad could be removed from the squad.

Narg wrote:QUOTE (Narg @ Jul 27 2007, 04:17 PM) I've had some great games like this after an SG, while there are plenty of people there who want to play with their squad, so you have a PK+SRM vs GB+SysX for example and you let everyone else on. You get to play with squaddies who you have "commited to" (did you propose?), and everyone gets to enjoy quality gameplay. Is it by leaving people out that you enjoy yourself?

If you truly believe this then you should start a petition to disband all squads. Because every Sunday when we have games we are leaving you out. Now we want to increase the frequency with which we play squad style games and you want to stop us. This makes no sense. We are not forcing you to play any differently. I do not understand why you would want to prevent us from playing squad games. Or maybe these comments were made mostly in an effort to flame this topic and add drama instead of logical discussions.

Either way those are just my thoughts on the topic.

Kltplzyxm · Post by **Kltplzyxm** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:53 pm

He's just being a troll, Void. Narg, you're a great example of why a merc should be supported by the community. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roll:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

hockey1015 · Post by **hockey1015** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:33 pm

ok, so let me try and understand this cluster$#@! that this valid idea has become.

-squaddies say "hey, lets get better pug's for ourselves!"

-mercs say "$#@! YOU, we are being shut out!"

-squaddies respond "the 'squads only' server won't be in use all the time"

-mercs revolt more "WE NEED TO PLAY IN THESE GAMES TOO!"

-squaddies try to compromise, thinking up ways to try and let the better mercs play as well.

-mercs bitch still "YOU'RE SEGREGATING THE COMMUNITY!!!"

personally, the squadded players are more than willing to work something out with the mercs... we realize that mercs are mercs for reasons, and that there are numerous mercs that are great pilots. That being said, both sides need to negotiate and try to brainstorm a way to make this idea work. When you step back and look at the WHOLE PICTURE (you know, not just the 1 inch square with your name in it) this idea is one of the best to come along in a long time. With the massive influx of new players (which is a good thing, just not all at one time) we have teams that are 60% ranks under 6. Obviously, these new players don't know the game yet, and us vets are forced to try to explain the game to them WHILE doing everything we've always been doing.

Also, if this plan ever gets worked out, just because the squadded (+mercs) server is there, does not mean EVERY squadded (+merc) player will be there. There are tons of vets who enjoy teaching new players, who would likely split their time between the two servers. What TheVoid did here, by ASKING for merc input, was pretty classy, and the mercs are making it seem like we're forcing them to join squads. That was never the point of this idea, and never will be.

-another thought for you mercs: With the release of R4, what is to say a squaddie won't make his own server for squadded players only? Why don't we hash out some kind of system before things get hostile between mercs and squadded players in R4?

Post by **aem** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:23 pm

TheVoid37 wrote:QUOTE (TheVoid37 @ Jul 27 2007, 03:36 PM) I also don't realize how this says screw the rest to the community.

Say every night @Ace or @XT stacks to one team and the game play is horrible for all the mercs on the other team. So now the mercs say we are stackers when all we want to do is play a good game with the people we have pledged to improve our team work skills with. I would think the mercs would want us off. Its like a pro ball team going down to the park, it may not be that they are better than the players at the park, its just that they have spent more time playing together, more time honeing their play style to match the same play style of the person next to them. That's all.

What I don't think you understand is its not about skill, a rank system won't work, It's not about knowledge of the game, a test or @cdt requirement won't work, It's not about Age, vet status won't work. Its about Myself making a comittment to a squad that I want to improve my ability to work to the max of my efficiency with them to better our game as a team to compete against other teams. I can't do that on a pug, I have not commited to only playing with certain mercs, the mercs or even other squadies I play with in a PUG changes every single game and often quite a bit during the game.

This is why your argument fails IMO. You keep going back to squaddies being committed to working together, etc etc. You can't say mercs are not as committed in any aspect of Allegiance. So, say you have some problem with XT and leave. You no longer have a squad tag. Are you any less committed so any aspect of Allegiance as you were before? No. You are putting mercs and squaddies in a different class which is not going to work around here. We are the same for the most part, just missing the squad tag. By not joining a squad we should not be ever thought of as not being as committed to anything.

The fact is this server you want will still have PUGs, just with higher quality games. You can say "XT, PK go blue and the rest yellow". But why can't you say "XT, PK go blue, other squads yellow, and mercs even up the teams"? Sure if squads are consistently on the same team they can get more familiar with how some of their teammates play the game. But how are veteran mercs going to interfere with that at all? Us veteran mercs are dedicated to the same type of gameplay as you and we certainly aren't going to bring the game quality down. If fact, it gives us a closer look at each squad so if we decide we want to join one, we have more experience flying with them and can make a better decision. And squads can get a better look at the mercs who appreciate the high level of gameplay that would exist on the server.

Keep in mind there are a number mercs out here who are more dedicated to teamwork and that high level of gameplay than a lot of squadded players. It does not have anything to do with being squadded or not and having dedicated veteran mercs flying alongside the squadded in the servers is not going to bring down gameplay.

I am more than willing to run an @Merc program along with some other veteran mercs to assist me until when/if I join a squad. But if I were to join a squad I certainly would have a good system in place by the time I would ever leave. @Merc would BE systematic and fair in choosing who can fly. You'd either have to have a positive recommendation from a former squad, be an @Cadet grad, or pass a test or something. Players on this server would be encouraged to leave feedback. If a complaint comes about a certain merc, he will be warned. If complaints keep coming he will be kicked from @Merc for some time. Basically, any merc who does not contribute at the expected level would be kicked quickly. Unless a serious violation they would be able to rejoin @Merc if they are again able to meet the entrance requirements to be given another chance. If they continue causing problems they will be kicked for longer periods of time.

Kltplzyxm · Post by **Kltplzyxm** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:33 pm

If Merc's simply don't mind signing up to a Merc guild, jumping through a couple hoops if need be, and logging on with an @Merc tag, there's really no reason for anyone to complain.

Sounds good to me. Make it so. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

blackeagle0001 · Post by **blackeagle0001** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:46 pm

Yay! Flame topics FTW!!!

`qd

`qd

(Did you copy)

fuzzylunkin1 · Post by **fuzzylunkin1** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:57 pm

Guys guys guys.

This is a game. Games are all about fun - not winning. Thats what a game is. Fun. Some get their fun by stacking, some get their fun by teamwork, some get their fun by venting on noobs.

Who gives a flying @#(! if you win. Oh well, your rank just got lower (just get rid of ranks past 4, seriously). If you want to improve gameplay quality, by all means do so (it would be great even though its fine as it is). But seriously, we need to get some $#@!in' mediators in here because we suck at understanding each other!

Y'all need to listen to each other and stop being so closed minded!

TheVoid37 · Post by **TheVoid37** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:47 am

AEM wrote:QUOTE (AEM @ Jul 27 2007, 07:23 PM) This is why your argument fails IMO. You keep going back to squaddies being committed to working together, etc etc. You can't say mercs are not as committed in any aspect of Allegiance.

I am pretty sure I have gone out of my way to not say that. I truly do not believe there is any skill level difference between squaded players and mercs.

The difference isn't skill level, isn't desire to win the game the difference is the Squad! Squadies, at least the ones I know, in general want to get better at working with each other on a team level to outperform other squads. This is competation. It's the same thing experienced in all sports, otherwise all you would have across the board are backyard pickup games. Which there is nothing wrong with. You don't understand because you don't have that desire so I don't think I can explain it to you.

AEM wrote:QUOTE (AEM @ Jul 27 2007, 07:23 PM) The fact is this server you want will still have PUGs, just with higher quality games.

I don't believe this, this would have to assume that all squaddies are better skilled and have better team work than mercs. This is something you don't agree with either so I don't understand this argument. This can not be of what you believe is true and what I believe is true.

AEM wrote:QUOTE (AEM @ Jul 27 2007, 07:23 PM) You can say "XT, PK go blue and the rest yellow". But why can't you say "XT, PK go blue, other squads yellow, and mercs even up the teams"? Sure if squads are consistently on the same team they can get more familiar with how some of their teammates play the game. But how are veteran mercs going to interfere with that at all? Us veteran mercs are dedicated to the same type of gameplay as you and we certainly aren't going to bring the game quality down. If fact, it gives us a closer look at each squad so if we decide we want to join one, we have more experience flying with them and can make a better decision. And squads can get a better look at the mercs who appreciate the high level of gameplay that would exist on the server.

Because this would be disrupting your game play, and forcing you to play ours. This would be making you a second class player by setting teams up without you then letting you fill in? is that what you want? Don't you want to have control over your own games and have the opportunity to play them your way? I have also explained why this doesn't really work, so won't go all into it again.

AEM wrote:QUOTE (AEM @ Jul 27 2007, 07:23 PM) Keep in mind there are a number mercs out here who are more dedicated to teamwork and that high level of gameplay than a lot of squadded players. It does not have anything to do with being squadded or not and having dedicated veteran mercs flying alongside the squadded in the servers is not going to bring down gameplay.

I absolutely agree except the difference is the tag. The difference is the Squad! which is what this is about. Take an NBA team of 5 guys, then pit them with another NBA team of 4 guys, and keep swapping out the 5th slot with ppl they don't know. See what team gets progressively better. Now they will NOT get better skill wise, that's not what this is about, its not about better skilled players. They will get better at playing as a team of the 5 same guys, while the other team will have to adjust every time you swap out the 5th guy.

AEM wrote:QUOTE (AEM @ Jul 27 2007, 07:23 PM) I am more than willing to run an @Merc program along with some other veteran mercs to assist me until when/if I join a squad. But if I were to join a squad I certainly would have a good system in place by the time I would ever leave. @Merc would BE systematic and fair in choosing who can fly. You'd either have to have a positive recommendation from a former squad, be an @Cadet grad, or pass a test or something. Players on this server would be encouraged to leave feedback. If a complaint comes about a certain merc, he will be warned. If complaints keep coming he will be kicked from @Merc for some time. Basically, any merc who does not contribute at the expected level would be kicked quickly. Unless a serious violation they would be able to rejoin @Merc if they are again able to meet the entrance requirements to be given another chance. If they continue causing problems they will be kicked for longer periods of time.

This totally bypasses the whole reason for doing this and I hope that we don't go this route.