Ok Noir, Seriously!

[Clay_Pigeon]

I generally like the smallrip capability of carriers, but agree that they are way too powerful. Maybe all we need to do is nuke their energy, so that the *entire team* can't rip to it to nan it, or d a miner, or attack a miner, etc etc. The hardest thing about killing a carrier is NOT the hull, but the fact that ships can rip and nan the carrier, get podded, get pu at the carrier, and be back to nan the carrier. This is worst with belters, because their figs can alternate between whoring you and nanning the carrier. In many early games the carrier acts as a force multiplier, so you need a disproportionately large number of attackers to kill the carrier, and while you do that someone starts whoring your miners.

Maybe rig it so only 3-4 ships can rip when the carrier is full energy, with a sensible regen rate to keep the whole team from storming in. Enhancing the carrier would give you the kind of capabilities that you have now, so put it in sy.

[Picobozo]

Carriers, like anything else, are very effective if used properly. In the rare instance that i've drawn the stack with carriers they have been devestating. Without the stack they are almost useless (at least offensively). What many teams fail to do is make locating and eliminating carriers a priority.

You have to remember that carriers are a very expensive gamble in most instances. Especially if the commander is going for multiple carriers right off the bat. If an entire team (or a majority) is rallied and makes a coordinated run on the carrier with just dis1/dumb1, it will go down pretty quickly.

What can make a carrier overpowered is the ships that are allowed to rip to it. I'm cool with scouts and basic figs, but patrollers and SF's are a little much. The miners in DN are easy enough to kill as it is, we don't need these super patties and SF's thrown into the mix as well.

In addition, I haven't looked at the required energy for different ships to rip to a carrier, but it seems that maybe as ships are upgraded (Enh, Adv Figs) that they would need to require more available energy from the carrier to rip. This may be the case now, but it seems like the enh/adv tech can rip to them as fast or nearly as fast as regular figs/scouts can. If it's not the case were enh ships costs more to rip, then maybe it would be beneficial to take a look at that and see if it's feasible to up the required energy to rip for those ships.

You might also be able to balance patties out this way as well, making their required energy to rip to a carrier maybe 50% to 100% more then it is now. Or maybe just make the carrier's energy recharge rate slower on the order of 25% to 50% to just generally slow down everything.

Lets put it this way, i've never had to put money into Enh Carriers before. They've either worked for me wonderfully (usually when I have a moderate stack) or they have failed for me horribly (when i'm stacked against hard which is par for the course in my case). In the cases where they have failed, usually the enemy team got together and systematically destroyed all my carriers as a team.

[Badger]

QUOTE (Clay_Pigeon @ Aug 9 2006, 11:47 AM) I generally like the smallrip capability of carriers, but agree that they are way too powerful. Maybe all we need to do is nuke their energy, so that the *entire team* can't rip to it to nan it, or d a miner, or attack a miner, etc etc. The hardest thing about killing a carrier is NOT the hull, but the fact that ships can rip and nan the carrier, get podded, get pu at the carrier, and be back to nan the carrier. This is worst with belters, because their figs can alternate between whoring you and nanning the carrier. In many early games the carrier acts as a force multiplier, so you need a disproportionately large number of attackers to kill the carrier, and while you do that someone starts whoring your miners.

Maybe rig it so only 3-4 ships can rip when the carrier is full energy, with a sensible regen rate to keep the whole team from storming in. Enhancing the carrier would give you the kind of capabilities that you have now, so put it in sy.

A good idea. However 3-4 ships can still be a lot. Pick any 4 miner killers and imagine them ripping into the carrier and attacking your miners. Or they rip in, wait, allow 4 more to rip in, then they all go for the miner.

It would take some tweaking, but this idea could work if done right.

[factoid]

QUOTE (Picobozo @ Aug 9 2006, 10:50 AM) You have to remember that carriers are a very expensive gamble in most instances. Especially if the commander is going for multiple carriers right off the bat. If an entire team (or a majority) is rallied and makes a coordinated run on the carrier with just dis1/dumb1, it will go down pretty quickly.

Just to clarify, a carrier is (last time I checked) util hull, so you're better off with gats.

[jgbaxter]

Carriers have utl hull, they last .2 seconds versus any decent stealth tech.


Changes;

1. Allow a light carrier in garrison, about ½ as effective as a current carrier, starts off researched perhaps, make the cost to purchase around 4k.

2. Allow a medium carrier in starbase, about as effective as a current carrier, must be researched like enh carriers currently (50% cost), make the cost to purchase around 6k.

3. Allow a heavy carrier in starbase (with the sy tag setting for the game on), about as effective as a current enh carrier, must be researched like enh carriers currently (100% of that cost), make the cost to purchase around 8k.


/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />


Optional; give bios medium carriers to start. `4

[Paradigm2]

Carriers should be free to purchase (without researching them), except they should only be available if a SY has been built.

If we are to keep Carriers how they are: 1. Their hull needs to be halved, 2. They need their energy drastically reduced (3-4 figs tops per minute).

[tmc]

[noir]
If carriers were so overpowered, then every faction would have a higher win%. Thus, they are not overpowered.
[/noir]

[Badger]

QUOTE (tmc @ Aug 9 2006, 04:26 PM) [noir]
If carriers were so overpowered, then every faction would have a higher win%. Thus, they are not overpowered.
[/noir]

Just cuz all of the factions get the same cheese does not mean the cheese is good. The cheese is still cheesy and must be shredded.

/mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

[Tigereye]

QUOTE If an entire team (or a majority) is rallied and makes a coordinated run on the carrier with just dis1/dumb1, it will go down pretty quickly.[/quote]
It'll go down a lot faster with gatt1/dumb1 (less than half the time it would take with dis1/dumb1)

A solo scout with 1 reserve rack of dumb1s and 4 racks of ammo will take it down in about 300s.
A solo scout with a full belly of dumb1s firing a dis1 will take it down in about 700s.

--TE

[factoid]

There's some wierd echo in the forum