SY

[Schwartz]

QUOTE (Auton @ Jun 21 2007, 10:25 PM) Perhaps instead of making capships totally dependent on the shipyard, we set things up so that certain techpaths determine what caps you can get.

For example, maybe something like:
SY (Lv 1)
-Missile Frigate
-Carrier (requires Exp 1)
-Assault Ship (requires Tac 1)
-Corvette (requires Sup 1)

SY (Lv 2)
-Cruiser
-Destroyer (requires Tac 1, Exp 1)
-Devastator (requires Exp 1, Sup 1)
-AWACS (Can scan nearly whole sector, transmits lead indicator, can cloak.) (requires Tac 1, Sup 1)

That tree is by no means final though, and could be expanded to suit our needs if we feel it's required.

This idea will reduce the effectiveness of SY rushes because you won't have nearly the range of ships you would receive by going a tech and using caps to end the game. Plus, further teamwork would be required to keep the loss of, say, a tac from preventing you from using Assault Ships, Dests, or AWACS. It will also make using caps slightly more economical by having a couple caps on top of your tech instead of just upgrading a base 5 times over to get really big ships, but yet it'll still be expensive, perhaps even more so. Not only that, but when you have that many upgrades, you need to consider BIOS research times when balancing...

what about:
supa long range bomber w/heavy cloak= upped tac
destroyer = upped sup
deveastator = upped exp
cruiser=
other than that, thats the best idea ive ever seen

[Evincar]

what about the same costs but independant research? i´m thinking specifically about bios: you hardly see any shipyard because to be effective you need med/hvy class, which besides not being cheap, has a 20/30 min at least of research. and bios sy is not cheap at all.

[blackeagle0001]

Bios SY comes with Lt researched and Med(?) already researched, just like their techbases come advanced.

[emene86]

Personally i think caps just need to be more versatile and be able to interact more with other ships. You should be able to rip to all caps (it does not make sense to be able to rip to a scout and not a capship) , and the idea of docking and exiting like the carrier could be implemented. This should give capships more endurance, because after all they are like moving bases.
Thus with docking the ability to change turrets is available- so you can launch with no turrets, but pilots can dock in the ship, and get on your turrets, or vice versa, the pilot can eject with a ship as opposed to a pod.

Small caps should be cheaper, - to increase their use
large caps (with the docking and rip ability) way more expensive

Also, I would really like to see the ability to let the ship autopilot while the pilot switches to a turret. If you are solo in the ship, why not course lock or autopilot as you kill a passerby, the one thing i hate is aiming with a capship, so maybe there is a way to improve that.

Anyways, maybe i'm just pissing in the wind, but this might create more small capship fleets, a central behemoth and definetly big showdowns

[madpeople]

well, i've started trying to make this happen.

done a bit of the core stuff.
i think i've successfully made the model for the laser nan.
i've made a nice picture of how the SY techtree works
(click for full size)


a arrow means you need to pay for a research to get something
a -> b
means if you have a, you need to pay for the research to get b

e.g. if you have SY, you need to pay for the research to get lt class mk1

if it doesn't have an arrow, it means you get it when you get the other (mostly)

e.g. when you research lt class mk 1, you get lt corvette and skycap 1 free
the mostly refers to if you find skycap 1 then you don't get lt class mk 1
if you find skycap 2 or 3 and only have lt class mk 1, you can still use skycap 3, but you don't get the mk2 and mk3 researches for free for finding it.

though bringing in laser nan 2 would give you nan 2 (and vice versa)

if anyone wants to do some of the core stuff, then i would be more than happy to send you the core i've started working on to do some stuff on.
i was mainly thinking of someone else doing the pres and defs for the research, since i don't know right now how the current structure works (there are about 8 researches for each class in DN right now), and i don't know if i would need to duplicate the same thing for every faction, or do it the way i would think i would do it.

the way i would think of doing it (using arbitrary pres and defs)
the building SY defines 1

research lt class mk1 requires 1 and defines: 2
research lt class mk2 requires 2 and defines: 3,4,5
research lt class mk3 requires 3 and defines: 6,7


ship speed 1GA research requires 1 and defines: 8
each lt corvette ship requires 2,<faction ID> and defines: nothing
skycap 1 weapon requires 1,2 and defines: nothing
each corvette ship requires 3,<faction ID> and defined: nothing
skycap 2 weapon requires 1,4 and defines: 4 (bring in sc 2 and you get sc 2)
drydock base requires 5 and defines: nothing (?) (this is the upgrade of the sy)
each med corvette ship requires 6,<faction ID> and defines: nothing
skycap 3 weapon requires 1,7 and defines: 7
ship speed 2 GA requires 1,5,8 and defines: nothing

then if i want bios to start with lt class mk 1 i just add 2 to their faction defs (or pres as i think the faction ones are the other way round?)

would that work? or would i need to duplicate the above for every faction?

[rojomojo915]

I dont think this would work, it seems like you would have to invest way to much money into it and im also assuming that you mean hvy class mk2 and mk3 and not med class mk2 and mk3.

[madpeople]

QUOTE (rojomojo915 @ Mar 4 2008, 06:53 AM) I dont think this would work

i'm thinking try it and see
QUOTE it seems like you would have to invest way to much money into it[/quote]
well, the idea isn't that you get every SY tech, the idea is you use SY to compliment what tech you have.
in some ways it is actually cheaper then the current SY as you don't have to buy the weapon upgrades any more.
(i was actually considering making the SY cost 10k to build too, maybe not 10k, but cheaper anyway)

i'm thinking the mk1 sy as being similar to enh tech, mk2 as being adv tech, and mk4 as being above adv tech (if you put all that money in, and have to pay for the ships then you should get something better than what others get for free)

if you wanted SY as your main tech path then you might go a combination of lt class an hvy class
sy: 20k
lt class 1: 10k
lt class 2: 10k
hvy class1: 10k
hvy class2: 10k
60k for two roughly adv techs

exp:10k
int: 10k
mini2: 5k
up exp: 30k
hvy int: 10k
mini 3: 5k

70k for mini 3 hvys
+ 5k for emp missile
+7.5k for TT
+10k for HTT
to deal with bases
92.5k

the SY team could either make their techs mk3, or go med class or support class or a combination of both (or just buy more caps) and still have spent less than the exp team.
or maybe get large shield 2 or 3.. maybe i should make them cost 10k each as they help every sy path...
QUOTE and im also assuming that you mean hvy class mk2 and mk3 and not med class mk2 and mk3.[/quote]

i'm not sure what you are referring to

think of lt class, med class, hvy class, support class as different techpaths in SY, not upgrades of each other as they are now.
each of the SY techpaths specialises in a specific task, and can't on its own be used to win game.

but the idea is to use SY as a compliment to your existing techpath,
if you're sup and your bombers aren't working then you go hvy class for bigger bombers.
or you might go support class for super nans

if you're tac and you want better defensive ships you might go lt class.

if your tech doesn't match up to the enemy's SY then you might get med class your self to kill their caps

more a long term supplement which might get used around the time you would normally get a second techpath (or earlier in a similar manner to tacspansion)

[rojomojo915]

QUOTE (rojomojo915 @ Mar 4 2008, 01:53 AM) im also assuming that you mean hvy class mk2 and mk3 and not med class mk2 and mk3.
QUOTE (madpeople)
i'm not sure what you are referring to

[/quote]

If you look at your chart and look at hvy class and the 2 upgrades, you have hvy class->med class mk2->med class mk3

But after reading what you had to say, I actually like it and think it could work

[madpeople]

QUOTE (rojomojo915 @ Mar 4 2008, 04:21 PM) you have hvy class->med class mk2->med class mk3

well spotted, thats a copy-paste error, they were meant to be hvy mk2 class and hvy class mk3

edit: fixed now

[pkk]

WTF, LASER NANITES?!

How can be robots created from laserlight?!