Data Mining

[craigp]

QUOTE (Kap @ Jun 5 2007, 05:06 AM) I haven't tried it but would there be any trouble if I have mods installed?

I honestly have not tested it, but I don't see any potential interference.

ImmortalZ: I really do want to be on the main or beta lobby. But to be on the main lobby, I have to go through a code review, which would take up too much time on my end - especially since I would have to undergo the review every time I collect new types of data. And to be on the beta lobby, I have to be using the R4 code base!

I really had no choice other than my own lobby, but I tried to make it as simple as possible. On an XP machine, it should literally just be a double-click before you play, and a double-click after you play.

-Craig

[History]

Hi Craig,
A few comments on measuring allegiance.

1. Commands. Although the command accept/reject system is useful for some specific tasks (mostly guiding newbies) the majority of the commanding is done in the form of chatting - "op goes left" is an implicit command to experienced players to make sure that a newly produced or soon to come outpost constructor will have sufficient defence in the sectors to the left of the current main base. "d tac" means for everyone to drop what they are doing, and do their best to defend the teams tactical laboratory from a (posibly unspotted) bomb run. Voice chat messages support this, but their meaning may vary hugely by context: "Attack their probes" might indicate a wish to direct resources towards general probing/deprobing, it may indicate that a specific probe is in the way of a bomb run or it may mean that killing one particular teleport probe will determine the outcome of the game. "Need Bombers" can be a signal for the whole team to get together and do a bomb run on the enemys tech base (usually this takes a lot more chatting though /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> ) The point is: don't rely on commanding being done by specific commands.

2. An interesting parameter is how much the commander is forced to leave base - and how many kills he is forced to do.

3. Commander stability is important - did the commander drop? Did he dump command? Was he mutinied against?

4. I'd love to see the effect of backseat commanding, but how will a program pick up on that?

5. There are many types of games in allegiance that are fundamentally different. A 4 vs 4 newbie game has next to nothing to do with a 15 vs 15 on the main server which is rather different from a squad game. And death matches, multi team games and special events are other dimensions alltogether. I am pretty sure that you have to know what you are aiming at to be able to analyze anything. The space is so large that your data migh be completely scattered and unsuited for statistics.

6. It usually takes new players a few months to figure out what determines a game (on the main server, primetime) and a lot longer to do anything about it - have you been playing enough?

I have to say I'd consider it extremely 'ym if you get anything useful done in 8 weeks, but as a fellow developer I wish you good luck!

-Hist

[craigp]

History:

I'm tracking text commands in great detail (storing actual text), but the voice chat is done by a different program, so I can't track that.

I do track people getting in and out of ships, so it's easy to see what the commander did, when, and for how long. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Player drops are iffy. I don't have them fully implemented yet, but soon.

Games of different sizes and types are definitely going to be an issue, which is why for now all the games on my server will be on a specific map. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

QUOTE (History @ Jun 5 2007, 11:05 AM) 4. I'd love to see the effect of backseat commanding, but how will a program pick up on that?

I'm not sure what this means... do you mean noncommanders giving orders? The system we use to track orders tracks everything, no matter what player is doing the chatting.


QUOTE 6. It usually takes new players a few months to figure out what determines a game (on the main server, primetime) and a lot longer to do anything about it - have you been playing enough?

I have to say I'd consider it extremely 'ym if you get anything useful done in 8 weeks, but as a fellow developer I wish you good luck![/quote]
No, I haven't been playing enough. I'm probably the most well-read month-old-newb ever to be on the forums, but I haven't been playing enough.

I'm hoping that the players will see their stats and start posting what they think. You know, "We should see X, rather than Y", or "Oh, look, Z is important!" Essentially, I'm hoping that half a dozen experienced experts will chime in, making up for me not being an expert.

If I had time, sure, I'd play up to speed before tackling anything. But that's not time I have - even one week's delay is too pricey, especially after the whole lobby debacle cost us a week.

Anyway, the collection code is in good shape, and I want to see data soon. If I can get people to play at 7PM, we'll see meaningful results tonight, which is sooner than eight weeks. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

-Craig

[TheBored]

Backseat commanding is a person (other than the commander) doing one of two things:

1) Ordering people around as if he/she is the commander.
2) Ordering the commander what to do (Build that over there, get the team bombing, get us an exp you tard)

TB

[madpeople]

oh, on a game display page like
http://207.180.131.79:8080/Allegiance/Alle...tats.php?game=4

can we change the background colour of a row based on their team

so background cell colour of all things on team 1 is (light) yellow
so background cell colour of all things on team 1 is (light) blue

also can we get next and previous buttons (if a next and previous game exist!)

oh and money. can we separate "payday" from money from miners, spec mines and floating cash, floating tech picked up that costs money, and money received from donations (either auto donating to the comm, single deposit money or buying a ship requesting money)

a payday is the 600cr (amount defined in core) that gets given to the team every minute on the minute
spec mines add a fixed amount of extra money per spec mine to the payday

also, show money donated to another player, and money received - money donated (this last one will be the most useful, it shows the total money the comm received in the game, and how much players spent on ships)

[craigp]

QUOTE (madpeople @ Jun 6 2007, 12:32 AM) can we change the background colour of a row based on their team

It's certainly easy to do, but there are a billion different kinds of events, and you're going to want to be able to tell them apart. I could make just one cell event-colored - that might do the trick.

QUOTE also can we get next and previous buttons (if a next and previous game exist!)[/quote]
Yeah, sure. Right now there's only 1.5 games, and chances are I'll have to delete that data before the next game. So this is easy, but it's not likely to be useful in the near future.

QUOTE oh and money. can we separate "payday" from money from miners, spec mines and floating cash, floating tech picked up that costs money, and money received from donations (either auto donating to the comm, single deposit money or buying a ship requesting money)[/quote]
Sort of? I thought I was doing that, but I must be checking the wrong variable. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

You have to realize, I've never run a game that had more than two people in it, so I've never gotten to check the donation code. 8|

-Craig

[History]

QUOTE (Datamine @ Jun 5 2007, 10:07 PM) I'm tracking text commands in great detail (storing actual text), but the voice chat is done by a different program, so I can't track that.

Really???! I don't mean TS. I mean the prerecorded sounds accompanied by a text message that can be sent from client to client(s) by shortcut keys. They are essential.

QUOTE (Datamine @ Jun 5 2007, 10:07 PM) Anyway, the collection code is in good shape, and I want to see data soon. If I can get people to play at 7PM, we'll see meaningful results tonight, which is sooner than eight weeks. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

EDT? I am european - sorry I can't be there.

One more thing: Con and miner kills are MUCH more important than player kills in general. They should be treated and reported specially. That would be worth looking at :-)

[craigp]

QUOTE (History @ Jun 6 2007, 11:37 AM) EDT? I am european - sorry I can't be there.

What time EDT would the Europeans generally play? If it's near my work hours, I'd be happy to host a game then.

I'm having a hard time with the shortcut chats. As you can see, I store them by what order they give ("GOTO", "ATTACK", etc) rather than the actual phrase. This is because no actual phrase ever gets transmitted: AFAIK, the only thing that's transmitted is a voiceover ID, which is translated into a phrase and a soundbyte at the client's end. I'm still looking for a way around that.

I could store the voiceover ID, but it's a bad solution. I'd rather get the text or, at least, the key combination used to say it.

I'm now recording kills accurately - I found the bug. Miner/Con/Base kills are easy to tell from player kills in the data, although at the moment the PHP program to display the data doesn't notice the difference. The PHP program is very rough. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

-Craig

[madpeople]

QUOTE (Datamine @ Jun 6 2007, 01:41 PM) Sort of? I thought I was doing that, but I must be checking the wrong variable. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

i noticed because
http://207.180.131.79:8080/Allegiance/Alle...tats.php?game=4

says
Pilot Team Source Cash Earned
?FreeB@Alleg(11) Team 2 Payday 33034
Datamine(0) Team 2 Payday 33034
fehltritt(4) Team 1 Payday 57863
holtonster@CDT-A(8) Team 2 Payday 33034
Kap@SysX(10) Team 2 Payday 31684
Quia@GB(9) Team 1 Payday 57863
spideycw(15) Team 1 Payday 50355
Strike700@PK Team 1 Payday 57863

now, if you add up all those numbers, and divide by 2*600 that should give you the time the game lasted if it were only paydays income and not miners or cash pickups

p.s. time in base vs time out of base

history:
http://207.180.131.79:8080/Allegiance/Alle...s.php?player=17


Chats by Player:
Pilot Time Stamp Target Chat
Quia@GB(9) 2007-06-05 19:24:37.543 TEAM going
Quia@GB(9) 2007-06-05 19:46:14.733 TEAM np
Quia@GB(9) 2007-06-05 19:48:29.030 TEAM Home, apparently.

[holtonster]

QUOTE (Datamine @ Jun 6 2007, 01:49 PM) I could store the voiceover ID, but it's a bad solution. I'd rather get the text or, at least, the key combination used to say it.

This might be a solution, but it would be a little time consuming. Go into a game, and say every voice chat, in order, and track the voiceover ID. Once you have the data, look through the voicechat list, and match each ID with the key combo or text. Im not a programmer, so I dont know how hard it would be to implement a function that prints the key combo or text as a replacement for the ID. Just a suggestion.