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> Announcement on the banning of Metz
Cookie Monster
post Jul 15 2014, 01:56 PM
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Alright $#@!ers. You want a proper post? Fine:

Masta's ban is long overdue from an objective point of view. Personally, I found that Masta's special brand of crazy was only slightly above par for the course when it comes to the internet (also it was hilarious). By and large we are a very mature community by internet standards, so perhaps that exacerbated his impact by comparison. Hell even in real life I've met people far worse (ok well I use the word 'met' loosely) who will resort to violence (let alone verbal threats) at the drop of a hat just because of who I am and/or what I say.

I have found that it's best to laugh at these people, regardless of whether it's appropriate or not (it isn't always a bright idea, I will conceed). Getting pissed off at someone (especially some internet bum bandito) only really negatively affects you. Having a good laugh is rather therapeutic and usually serves to piss them off, which is just icing on the cake really.

But I digress.

Objectively, Masta should have stayed perma-banned in the first place purely because I can sit here and rattle off names of well established community members who left because of him - let's not even bother trying to estimate the amount of newbs who gave up after suffering one of his many tirades. As far as I can recall, he never showed any signs of improving, no remorse, no redeeming qualities - actually someone remind me why his permaban was even revoked in the first place aside from brute peer pressure. Were there even conditions attached to his return? I vaguely remember some, but clearly they were never even enforced.

Would I have banned him now? No. The execution was completely tits up. Forgive me Dome for the @#(! talking - I have the utmost respect for what you've done with the community - but those already disenfranchised with the establishment will note, and the rest of the community should note, that what has in fact happened here is that Masta has been banned and pkk/Dome have retroactively re-interpreted the rules (contrary to an already well established precedent, might I add) in order to make what Masta had done a bannable offence. That isnt' justice.

Regardless of what Masta said (and to whom) it has always been clear (as far as I remember) that VOIP servers were strictly outside the purview of the RoC. Regardless of the motivation behind this at the time for establishing such a precedent - it held and if i'm not mistaken it stood right up until now. I'd hazard a guess that another reason that BV chose to keep TS/Mumble off limits from the RoC aside from the fact that they were privately owned and him being lazy (as has been suggested) is because unless someone was recording at the time (and sometimes even if they were) it is simply word of mouth that one relies on for punishing a community member. Is hearsay, even from a respected community member, enough to permaban someone?? It seems to me that it would be rather perverse to change the rules in order to retroactively ban someone, and even worse (as is the case here) to retroactively change the meaning of the rules to justify a ban for something that was not a bannable offence at the time.

Yes, Masta received plenty of warning and then some regarding his poor behaviour. Yes, there is no justification for what he purportedly said to Dome. Yes, he was not the most popular kid in school. Yes, he did not deserve leniency, but he followed the letter of the law. As far as I see it, Masta was permabanned for doing something that an @Alleg would not be allowed to give a 15 minute time out for simply because he pissed off the wrong person.

Anyhoo to conclude - as an ex Evil Overlord I accept that my objections are academic at this point and I'm not sorry to see Masta go, but what a way to send him off. The sensible thing to do would have been to establish a new precedent and warn him - make it clear that if he so much as put's an apostrophe in the wrong place, he will be banned. I understand why Dome banned him, I understand pkk re-interpreting the rules to justify it but I don't condone it.

tl;dr - you can piss right off, Rav.



"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." Carl Sagan ("The Lives of the Stars" ep. 9 Cosmos)
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Drizzo
post Jul 15 2014, 02:07 PM
Post #102


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wurf trolled into wasting 30 minutes typing a wall of text

wp raveen


QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) *
Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.
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Duckwarrior
post Jul 15 2014, 02:51 PM
Post #103


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Yo.

RIP. Our Heisenberg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R95f7VwXqIw

This post has been edited by Duckwarrior: Jul 15 2014, 02:55 PM


Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy.
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raumvogel
post Jul 16 2014, 07:28 AM
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I have proof that cookie is everywhere:







This post has been edited by raumvogel: Jul 16 2014, 07:32 AM


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Archangelus
post Jul 17 2014, 10:46 PM
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Now this is the $#@!ing drama we all luff!! Keep coming! Lets force Dome to unban masta and say he was sorry!!!


QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) *
Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
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DusanC
post Jul 18 2014, 02:22 AM
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QUOTE (Archangelus @ Jul 18 2014, 05:46 AM) *
Now this is the $#@!ing drama we all luff!! Keep coming! Lets force Dome to unban masta and say he was sorry!!!

Quoted for future generations.


- "History repeats itself for a reason" - "It's easy to cry for war when you've never experienced it" - "It's better to negotiate for 10 years then make war for 10 days" - "The strong do as they will, and the weak do as they must"
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MAGEINTA WARRIOR...
post Jul 18 2014, 03:26 AM
Post #107


Metz Banned - I'm Not


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This isn't drama. This is just common sense. Dome banned Metz as a reflex for insulting his family, probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Dome wants to maintain a moral high ground though, so he's trying to wiggle some RoC infraction into this. The ban discussion took place AFTER Metz was banned, not before, so Metz was banned and then they had a discussion on whether or not to ban the already banned Metz. Pkk is taking it upon himself to make RoC apply to mumble on account of it being a "part of the game", instead of a third-party program.

QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 4 2014, 03:32 AM) *
Yes, in some cases it can lead to an in-game/forum ban. Anyway, we (@Alleg) try to follow the RoC/ToS, but I'm (as representative of server owner) above RoC/ToS.


Dome and Pkk for Fourth Reich, imo.

This post has been edited by Elzam V. Branstein: Jul 18 2014, 03:46 AM


A hero is not one who never falls, but one who gets up again and again, NEVER losing sight of one's dream!
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pkk
post Jul 18 2014, 04:08 AM
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Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.


QUOTE (The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM)
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.

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Trasher
post Jul 18 2014, 05:15 AM
Post #109



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Ah Allegiance, receive an email about the game being revitalized...
...can we also get emails when there's drama happening?
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Xivi
post Jul 18 2014, 05:49 AM
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QUOTE (Trasher @ Jul 18 2014, 11:15 AM) *
Ah Allegiance, receive an email about the game being revitalized...
...can we also get emails when there's drama happening?

Might consider putting together a mailing list for this. Clearly it's for the good of allegiance.
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Trasher
post Jul 18 2014, 06:30 AM
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QUOTE (ChaoticStorm @ Jul 18 2014, 11:49 AM) *
Might consider putting together a mailing list for this. Clearly it's for the good of allegiance.


There's already a mailing list, it's called 'Members'. tongue.gif
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raumvogel
post Jul 18 2014, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE (Trasher @ Jul 18 2014, 06:15 AM) *
Ah Allegiance, receive an email about the game being revitalized...
...can we also get emails when there's drama happening?

No,that would be too easy.You will have to actually log into the board once in a while to see if there is any.

BTW,Elzam,Metz swore he was going to branch off and get his own server running the game.He has a web site,but it doesn't even have it's own forum yet.
So if/when that does happen you will be free to go there and say anything you want and act any way you wish.


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_xJammer_
post Jul 18 2014, 07:20 AM
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As far as drama goes, this thread has been very benign
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Raveen
post Jul 18 2014, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Jul 15 2014, 07:56 PM) *
Hell even in real life I've met people far worse (ok well I use the word 'met' loosely) who will resort to violence (let alone verbal threats) at the drop of a hat just because of who I am and/or what I say.


Yeah, but that's surely just because you're an extremely objectionable human being?

QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Jul 15 2014, 07:56 PM) *
Objectively, Masta should have stayed perma-banned in the first place purely because I can sit here and rattle off names of well established community members who left because of him - let's not even bother trying to estimate the amount of newbs who gave up after suffering one of his many tirades. As far as I can recall, he never showed any signs of improving, no remorse, no redeeming qualities - actually someone remind me why his permaban was even revoked in the first place aside from brute peer pressure. Were there even conditions attached to his return? I vaguely remember some, but clearly they were never even enforced.


TB was one of the behind the scenes folk pushing for Masta's unbanning. He was of the opinion that it was down to a personal vendetta on Pook's part rather than a justified reaction to an ongoing situation. Whilst I'd agree that some of Pook's bans were off the scale (GV for the most part) Masta's ban was always well earned and had a large amount of supporting evidence.

When Masta was let back in he was given strict guidelines and he did manage to keep his nose pretty clean for a long while. After a while though he started pushing boundaries and the establishment was not strong enough to push back due to a variety of reasons (inactivity being the main one).

QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Jul 15 2014, 07:56 PM) *
tl;dr - you can piss right off, Rav.


Ah thankyou!

QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Jul 18 2014, 09:26 AM) *
This isn't drama. This is just common sense. Dome banned Metz as a reflex for insulting his family, probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Dome wants to maintain a moral high ground though, so he's trying to wiggle some RoC infraction into this. The ban discussion took place AFTER Metz was banned, not before, so Metz was banned and then they had a discussion on whether or not to ban the already banned Metz. Pkk is taking it upon himself to make RoC apply to mumble on account of it being a "part of the game", instead of a third-party program.



Dome and Pkk for Fourth Reich, imo.


Godwin! And stepping back from that last bit of hyperbola, consider the following metaphore - Dome acted as a copper taking Masta into custody, pkk acted as the Judge in sentencing him to prison. And no, there wasn['t a jury because this isn't a $#@!ing leagal system it's an example to help people understand. If pkk wanted Masta back he would be back, as Admin that's his call at the end of the day. If pkk wanted to ban me from these forums he's entirely within his rights to do it regardless of what behaviour I demonstrate. I might not be happy about it but I don't deny his absolute right to do what he wants with these systems. I personally support the holistic view of the community that seems to have emerged, one community, many systems has always been my view of how enforcement should work.



Spidey: Can't think of a reason I'd need to know anything
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spideycw
post Jul 18 2014, 01:14 PM
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I'm confused. Masta is banned and people care why? Or do people care that Dome overstepped himself?


I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday

QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) *
I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.

My apologies.

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DusanC
post Jul 18 2014, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (spideycw @ Jul 18 2014, 08:14 PM) *
I'm confused. Masta is banned and people care why? Or do people care that Dome overstepped himself?

You can't have alleg drama without at least 2 opposing sides: for masta ban, against masta ban then those goat lovers and elzam haters...


- "History repeats itself for a reason" - "It's easy to cry for war when you've never experienced it" - "It's better to negotiate for 10 years then make war for 10 days" - "The strong do as they will, and the weak do as they must"
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Archangelus
post Jul 18 2014, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) *
Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.

This must be my new sig!


QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) *
Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
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Qupenig
post Jul 19 2014, 12:13 AM
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Farted while reading.
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raumvogel
post Jul 19 2014, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE (Qupenig @ Jul 19 2014, 01:13 AM) *
Farted while reading.

On the Internet...no one can smell you fart.


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Duckwarrior
post Jul 19 2014, 02:43 AM
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QUOTE (spideycw @ Jul 18 2014, 07:14 PM) *
I'm confused. Masta is banned and people care why? Or do people care that Dome overstepped himself?


We care because we were worried that he had scared you off spidey. We want you back, and we thought that if we removed the only comm playing with the potential to rival your greatness, then there was a chance.

Welcome back to the Trashcanman. Level 69 Whoremaster. :::not worthy:::


Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy.
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