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Did some testing with GreyVulpine, ShadowFoxx, Your_Persona; should be easy enough for others to test. Dreg adv fighters with missle track 2 still failed me. DN gunships can easily dodge dumbfires if they are aware of their surroundings. Just move forward and sidethrust. Not too sure about moving back and sidethrusting... going to have to check that out.

Oh, I would imagine that there are plenty of situations where a competent gunship is "trapped." Like, it is in a position where it will eat dumbs, no matter what. Like say, when it is exiting an aleph... or the fighter is at point blank range(not advised against skycaps, and impossible for a formation of fighters... <30? m, practically ramming the gunship?).

Or, perhaps if there is a gunship escorting a bomber alongside it; if it sidethrusts too much, it starts falling behind the bomber. (This would make it a lot harder to hit any fighters going to kill the bomber. The last release doubled(?) the speed of skycaps, and thus makes "falling behind a little bit" more feasible, since the ultra skycaps won't care about a measly 300-400m, no?)

I mean, a gunship shouldn't be escorting a bomber in this way -anyways- if the entire sup team is on d; the sup team can just hit the bomber... It's just an example of when a competent gunship pilot shouldn't be able to dodge dumbs.

Anyways, I'm not bitching so much about the last release affecting the maneuverability of gunships; I don't think it did, if I recall correctly. The speed of the skycaps thing though... ouch.

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I guess I could run a bunch of imaginary scenarios, but I think a good question would be:

What does supremacy(enh/adv figs) do against (a) nanned, gunned gunship(s) with plenty of ammo coming to camp a base in preparation for say, the bomber that is coming?

It can't form to gat2/dumb2 the gunships; the dumb2s miss, and the gunners will probably kill enough fighters by the time they're all in range shooting the gunship for gat 2 to overpower the gunship.

It could try to gat2/seeker2 the nans I guess, and hope that it killed enough so that once all the fighters are podded and back in base, it can launch as a group again, and have enough firepower to overdamage the remaining nans. This idea is going to go ahead and assume that the fighters will get podded... because I mean, come on, even with perfect formation and say, "a few figs hitting this nan" and "a few figs hitting that nan" (mythical deas which, btw, aren't happening any time soon in a pick up game...) those brand spanking new skycaps with their effective ranges doubled will shred the fighters before they do any major damage.

And I'd rather not hear answers like "supremacy has probe 2 and ship sensors which should eye this supposed nanned gunship run of doom." Tps placed close to an aleph, and say, a relatively far base/tp that is going to be camped result in eyed "gunship runs" which you can't stop at the aleph, because you can't get there in time.

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Now then, what I said above was more about supremacy vs gunships, on DN. And I'll admit that I haven't tested the following statement in say, a SG or something, or some other "high quality game" with "competent players on both sides." However, I have seen this happen with relatively organized fighter masses of relatively competent players...

That is to say, from a purely "combat" point of view : Gunned Gunship(s) + nans > formation of enh/adv figs? Sad!

Edit: Actually, enh(adv) figs can probably still form up and outdamage the nanned gunship with gats alone... of course, this is ignoring the fact that scouts would be proxing the area in front of a gunship, and the gunship would be moving "back" by turning around and using its forward thrust...(here, I assume that dumbs hit a gunship moving back...)

Even if dumbs -can- hit a backpedaling DN gunship (needs testing!), even if scouts -don't- prox the area where the figs would enter so as to quickly focus fire, even if gat2/3 does easily outdamage nan2... Gunships are now very, very unforgiving. Especially in pickup games, which, if I recall right, provide most of the statistics for the balancing of DN.

make all missiles lead the target.

Did you try blind firing the dumbs like mrm thunders?

It requires a certain combination of intelligence to make a missle hit. Dumb's are dumb and require that all the intelligence be supplied by the user.

Dumbs miss against a gunship trying to not get hit. It's really that simple. You can go test it if you want. When I tested it, it was GT adv sup (worst tracking!) and Dreg adv sup (best tracking!) against Rix gunships.

As said, there are often situations where they will -not- try to not get hit, like when they're escorting a bomber perhaps, or entering an aleph.

Nanned gunships make fun of organized, enh fighters. Even more so when the scouts are flying around proxing.

Adv sup has a bit of a less serious problem, with heavy booster. Prox scouts should still be able to make the gunship live though, by limiting choices as to how to angle yourself and get your gat3s in, since your dumbs certainly aren't hitting a gunship trying to not get hit.

Abomination wrote:QUOTE (Abomination @ Jun 8 2007, 05:43 PM) Dumbs miss against a gunship trying to not get hit. It's really that simple. You can go test it if you want. When I tested it, it was GT adv sup (worst tracking!) and Dreg adv sup (best tracking!) against Rix gunships.

As said, there are often situations where they will -not- try to not get hit, like when they're escorting a bomber perhaps, or entering an aleph.

Nanned gunships make fun of organized, enh fighters. Even more so when the scouts are flying around proxing.

Adv sup has a bit of a less serious problem, with heavy booster. Prox scouts should still be able to make the gunship live though, by limiting choices as to how to angle yourself and get your gat3s in, since your dumbs certainly aren't hitting a gunship trying to not get hit.

If you're relying on your Dumbfire missile's tracking to tag a target then you've done it wrong. Multiple fighters, multiple angles of approach, that's the key to missile victory.

Consider the sphere of 2k (call it 1.5k, to be generous) of instadeath that surrounds the turreted gunship, and then get back to me on multiple angles of approach.

Uh, whatever, anyways. I give up. People don't see dumbfires missing gunships as retarded? Their opinion.

i honestly dont have much a problem with this, very few GS ever get nans, and I dont have to much problem's DFing them down.

you make a slight point, but in anything larger then small maps, you cant do that concentrated dodging/ ninja action that DF dodging requires in a GS, they just are not maneuverable enough.

Gunships are cheese and you should stop trying to defend them. Abomnoob is 100% correct

gunships are complete cheese, but thats 3 pilots worth.

the problem isnt GS becoming superpowerful, they used to be MORE powerful, the problem is nooblets who cant work together to KILL gunships