Data Mining

[craigp]

Hi, my name is Craig.

I work with Orbus Gameworks, a small company specializing in collecting data on how players play games.

There aren't very many easily modified, heavily team-based games out there, and we want data on how players work in teams. What we'd like to do with FreeAllegiance is modify the source and host some games, collecting as much data as we can.

We only want to do this if the community is likely to be willing to play games on someone else's server - it would be pointless to make the modifications if we can't convince anyone to play. Do you think this community could be convinced to play a few games on our server, if we create one?

Also, I've gotten the source from research.microsoft.com, but I'm under the impression it isn't the code base which the community is using. Part of the point is to be identical to the normal game, so we'd like to use the most common code base. Can anyone give me more information on this matter?

Any advice would be helpful, obviously. I'm not very familiar with the community or the game, so I probably have some misconceptions that need to be cleared up.

-Craig

[Raveen]

The current source is available, search the knowledgebase for it, it's in there somewhere (or someone will post up a handy link /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" /> ). You're correct in assuming that the MS code isn't the current version, in fact I'm not sure if that code works at all, I think it may have issues compiling or something (I'm not a coder, what do I know).

What sort of data would you be wanting to track? Whilst it may be possible to get some people to play on your servers for a time it'd be far better for you if your modifications could be included in the current release to give you (and the community) access to the data you want.

[KofiMan]

Here is the link to the Knowledgebase article on the source repository.

http://www.freeallegiance.org/knowledgebase/entry/32/45/

I must also re-iterate some of Raveen's concerns. What sorts of data are you trying to collect, and what are you looking for?

[craigp]

QUOTE (Raveen @ May 11 2007, 07:24 AM) The current source is available, search the knowledgebase for it, it's in there somewhere (or someone will post up a handy link /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" /> ). You're correct in assuming that the MS code isn't the current version, in fact I'm not sure if that code works at all, I think it may have issues compiling or something (I'm not a coder, what do I know).

Ah, then I'll delete the nasty beast I downloaded and track down something more useful. (Edit: Thanks, KofiMan!)

QUOTE What sort of data would you be wanting to track? Whilst it may be possible to get some people to play on your servers for a time it'd be far better for you if your modifications could be included in the current release to give you (and the community) access to the data you want.[/quote]
While we want to track the typical data (hits, deaths, research, etc), the real point is that we want to track the way a team interacts and how a tactical event (say, the death of a team member) affects the performance of the team as a whole. This is why I'm reluctant to try and use the event logger that is already in circulation (TAG, I believe it is called). Instead, we want to create a custom event logger that can do things like track tactical situations and team hierarchy automatically.

While I'd be happy to distribute the source and the data, that would require a finished product. We don't want to wait until we've finished to get this thing working. Instead, we want to make it collect data, run a game, realize that we're collecting the wrong data, revamp it, and try again. Obviously, distributing at the end of every build would be excessive, although I doubt we'd have any issue with distributing the final code. We're not trying to be secretive, we're just trying to be efficient.

So I thought a good compromise would be to host events as we refine our data-gathering code.

What are everyone's thoughts on the matter?

-Craig

[madpeople]

source code http://www.freeallegiance.org/knowledgebase/entry/32/45/
building http://www.freeallegiance.org/knowledgebase/entry/32/64/

i believe you can make your modifications and run your own server on the beta lobby, (even run your own lobby if you really wanted)

only non-beta final public release clients/server are allowed on the normal lobby

you would have to talk to the FAZ team about including your modifications in the final client (dunno if there are security issues if you have our servers sending stuff to your servers)

this is out of curiosity, would we get anything out of this? could we see the data you collect on us?

also would have to see if this violates the agreement with MS when they released the code - we aren't allowed to make any money from allegiance, i'm not sure how this would relate to data from the game (i'm assuming as a company you want to make money from the data you gather some how)

edit, arrg, fast posters.

so we get source code and data /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
could be a basis of a new stats system ... *ponders*

[craigp]

QUOTE (madpeople @ May 11 2007, 07:54 AM) i believe you can make your modifications and run your own server on the beta lobby, (even run your own lobby if you really wanted)
only non-beta final public release clients/server are allowed on the normal lobby

That shouldn't be a problem, thanks!

QUOTE you would have to talk to the FAZ team about including your modifications in the final client (dunno if there are security issues if you have our servers sending stuff to your servers)[/quote]
That's so far in the future it's barely worth considering. If we get that far, we'll certainly talk about it.

QUOTE this is out of curiosity, would we get anything out of this? could we see the data you collect on us?[/quote]
We don't have any intention of keeping secrets or charging any money. All our Allegiance-related stuff would be free.

We want to establish our credentials, so the idea is that we'll be posting analysis of our data publicly (neutered or not, depending on community preference) in an attempt to show our edge at analyzing data. There's not going to be any attempt to keep Allegiance-related things proprietary - we're doing this in the same way a programmer might work on an open-source project to show his skill.

I don't know whether anything directly useful will come out of it, but it may be useful if you want to optimize team strategies or determine who are good leaders. We can't promise anything, of course: this whole thing is exploratory.

-Craig

[KofiMan]

QUOTE (madpeople @ May 11 2007, 08:54 AM) so we get source code and data /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
could be a basis of a new stats system ... *ponders*

I can finally see who pods themselves on rocks the most, and who holds the record for pod pickups. /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you. Allegiance is a very complicated game.

[Raveen]

It'd be really great to have the data you're going to collect available to the community as a whole. What I think you'll need to do is get Allegiance to report all the events you're looking for and then code a replacement for TAG to access the data (assuming I'm right on how the current system works).

That means that for people to play on your server you'll need to distribute a new client and get people to use it.

My suggestion would be to talk to DogBones the development lead and see what he says.

[craigp]

QUOTE (Raveen @ May 11 2007, 09:01 AM) That means that for people to play on your server you'll need to distribute a new client and get people to use it.
My suggestion would be to talk to DogBones the development lead and see what he says.

Hrm, I was hoping I would just be able to modify the server and leave people using the same clients.

I'm going to familiarize myself with the code, then I'll talk to DogBones.

-Craig

[BlackViper]

Craig,

A couple of suggestions if I may. Download and install the game. Download and install Teamspeak. PM me about sitting in on a squad (clan) match to see how the game is really played. If you gave us a better idea of the exact data you are looking for we might be able to give you better answers.

One person leads a team. That person is always available to lead the team unless he loses a connection. There can be several sub leaders doing specific roles. I suggest you read the crash course at the Academy. www.allegacademy.org

This game is very unique. The level of cooperation required by the players is very high in order to win.

Assumption on my part. I assume the data you gather is used by developers in creating new team oriented games. You will find games that require a large amount of cooperation and skill have great drama. Just read our forums.

Anything I can do to help, let me know.