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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:04 pm
by Duckwarrior
I'll bet that three years ago you never thought you'd hear this. My hypothesis is that limiting the number of players on a server will give us better games.

I think it's a myth, perpetrated by the daughters of the mayflower, whose carcasses quite frankly are begining to get a bit whify anyway, that player skill is decreasing, todays player base is as able as it ever was. There were probably more aces around because there were more players around. I never played beta or very early retail, I *think* I bought the game in early 2000, and was a newbie for the next four and a half years or so before entering the golden era of my voobdom so I can't comment with any authority on the pre-Ducky era (herinafter refered to as B.C. (Before Canard(as opposed to A.D. (After Duck)))). What I do remember however was the game size brackets which you set before launch in the AZ, don't quote me, I'm sure someone remembers the actual sizes but weren't they something like 2-10, 8-15, 12-20 etc?

My theory is that Allegiance really doesn't scale well, I think that 15 or so players a side (depending on the map) is about the optimum, cramming 60 players onto Inside-out or Star just removes any hope of a decent, co-ordinated game. HTT's can't sneak about because there isn't just one Pook or Noir or Wyldkarde massochistically mooching about in a scout, there are ten, sup becomes ludicrously overpowered because 10 people with galvs kill a giga light op in about 5 seconds and the team still has an uber defense and 5 massochists in scouts waiting in the wings. The subtlety of Allegiance is lost, it becomes a huge, stinking, hairy mess. Nobody can do anything Allegilike because every sector is having its ass DMed out CS style.

What the game size brackets did was to allow the game owner to set the map to match the players there at the start, if twenty stragglers wandered in after launch the first few could join, the remainder had to either start another game, or sit in the lobby pissing and moaning about how cool it would be if there was a way to launch a game without a player cap. THAT'S what is missing from the current setup, two or three games of reasonable size and OMGWTF different cores being played at the same time. It would allow Allegiance style gameplay back into Allegiance. It's not the fact that todays newbies suck, it's the fact that we are incapable of regulating the size of a game by looking at the map and settings, without big brother doing it for us. Don't get me wrong there are times when a cluster-$#@! 60 player game is fun, but not every single prime-time game, every single day.

Two or three games may even give less experienced would-be commanders the impetus to have a go as well, commanding 10 people is less daunting than listening to a team of thirty with five or six able comms criticising your every move, mull it around. I think it's a plan.

P.S. I haven't re-read this yet because I'm at work and it's five O'clock, so if there are even more typos and bad punctuation than usual, tough.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:13 pm
by ImmortalZ
/blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

Words of wisdom.

You need to do these kinds of posts more often Ducky /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:23 pm
by Grimmwolf_GB
He is right. Often games turn into a whore fest, when a small game gets flooded with players from a different game, turning a nice and cosy 5 vs 5 into a 15 vs 15 game. With the Bracket ™ it would not have happened. I think 15 vs 15 is optimal size for Alleg, but you dont really want a small game turn into a medium sized game. It is just messy.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:47 pm
by jgbaxter
I definately agree. While I enjoy playing the occasional large game with 20+ players a side, I usually prefer 10-20 players a side.

I suppose if there's already an imbalance option in settings, there could be a player size setting as well... n/a, <10, <20, <30, <40, <50...

/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:35 pm
by ShadowFox_
Good point Duck... however... most games aren't 20+ per side. Maybe it should be an option in the commander's game control menue?

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:49 pm
by Paradigm2
I'd say 30 Players max... 15-30 players can still be fun and still scale.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:52 pm
by Duckwarrior
I disagree Shadow, I think most games, prime time, end up >20 per side. The game size option was controlled by the game owner. It is impossible to scale Allegiance to be fun with either 20 people or 80, how could it work? Tech would have to be feeble to work with 30 people a side compared to 10 per side.

Para and I are on the same page, 15 per side is where the balance is pitched IMHO.

Squad games aren't more fun than pick-up games because the squads are all composed of identically skilled people, they are fun because their size is controlled. The squads are made up by people who like to probe, bomb, whore, whatever, there just aren't dozens of them trying to do the same thing, at the same time, ALL of the time.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:54 pm
by Vlymoxyd
I don't remember all the sizes, but I think they were like 1-6, 5-10, 7-15, 10-20, 15-30, etc.

There 1 problem: In the old good days, remember that people rarely joined a game in progress. There were enough players to be able to always start a new game. The fact that 7-15 was the most common game size probably helped as well since with 300-400 players at once all playing 15 vs 15, you usually had 10+ games at the same time. It would be harder now since we don't have as many player.

I also remember that there were problems with people dropping(And the fact that people were usually nice enough to give away their spot on a team to let those who dropped back). If the team was full, you couldn't join back.

That said, I agree that teams of 10-15 makes the best games and having the option to limit sizes might work.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:56 pm
by Badger
very good post.

I would say 30-40 max. Either way though, the idea of a server cap is good. I think having 2-3 good sized games would really add a new level to the games and community. Newer players could then switch to another game when they dislike the comms in another game. Plus we would see other servers being used more.

Would this have to goto the senate for a vote? OR do the devs handle it?

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:06 pm
by ugliramous
when i was 1st quit drinking and couldnt sleep i played alot at 3 am edt till maybe 9 am edt
the games usually werent more than 15 to 20 players max
they were relaxing fun AND I THINK DUCKIE IS RIGHT!

randy /wub.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":iluv:" border="0" alt="wub.gif" />